Tell HN: PayPal Blocks GrapheneOS

142

lleumon about 3 hours ago 71 comments

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It seems like the PayPal app now refuses to run on GrapheneOS. I don't know if it's only because I have enabled the PayPal card for contacless NFC payments, but when opening the app it crashes with the following exception: com.paypal.oslo.app.rasp.RootDetectionSecurityException: Security policy violation: s=root

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Discussion (71 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

axegon_•about 1 hour ago

This is arguably the most irritating thing with just about every largecorp developer: "os that hasn't been updated in 6 years? Sure boss!". Os that is built specifically around security and privacy with daily updates: "No, you can't do that". Annoying - yes. Safe way to make sure I will stop being your customer - also YES!

fluidcruft•25 minutes ago

Generally I think the issue is that there's a tension between your security vs Paypal's security (deliberate, motivated bad actors).

Maybe an analogy could be about using metal detectors as a layer to reduce bank robberies. A gun in a good guy's hands is a good thing to prevent robberies. Guns in a bad guy's hands are a bad thing to prevent robberies. Paypal knows you have a gun but they don't know if you're a good guy or a bad guy so it's easier to just ban guns.

encom•23 minutes ago

How does a rooted phone enable bank fraud? This smells like pointless policy checkboxing.

biosboiii•15 minutes ago

If you run a rooted phone and download malware, that malware can gain root and do payments on your behalf. Then PayPal has to deal with you revoking payments etc., they don't want to so they forbid you from using PayPal on a rooted phone.

tonyhart7•23 minutes ago

"Safe way to make sure I will stop being your customer - also YES!"

I don't think they care at all about the size of graphene os market share

if its jeopardize entire userbase then its not worth it

zerof1l•about 2 hours ago

I see this happen from time to time. Lately, almost all of the apps work fine on GrapheneOS. The best strategy is to keep writing the business once every two or so weeks that you can’t log in to and use the app. Don’t go too technical at first, because most of the time, the moment they hear things like “rooted” or “unofficial,” they just say your phone is the issue. To date, I was able to convince, or at least contribute to, making three apps work on GOS.

basilikum•25 minutes ago

Great job, man. We have to make ourselves get heard. It's a social problem after all. Technical workarounds are great and sometimes the only practical short term option, but we have to fix the social issue at the root.

Kwpolska•about 1 hour ago

Why would anyone still use PayPal after so many cases of accounts being banned and funds being frozen for no reason, and all the other terrible stuff they've done?

dewey•1 minute ago

Easy to say when you are in a country where you have a lot of options.

There's some countries with very bad financial sector where your option is PayPal or Western Union as the local banks don't know how to do international transfers, Remitly doesn't support all countries and Wise also doesn't work. PayPal works, even if they charge fees.

DemetriousJones•44 minutes ago

I simply use it as an intermediary between my bank and any website I don't fully trust

fg137•4 minutes ago

I use "virtual card" for those needs. For me, it doesn't justify bringing out PayPal

rciorba•about 1 hour ago

Critical mass? I had to start using it after moving to Germany, because everyone else expects you to use it.

One of the ladies at daycare is leaving? Here's a paypal link to chip in for a good-bye present.

Split a take-out order with a German friend, but he paid? Here's his paypal to send him your share.

It's just assumed that everyone has paypal over here...

iammrpayments•44 minutes ago

Thought they use Sepa

netsharc•38 minutes ago

SEPA uses your IBAN (account number), and one can also enter this account number for payment, implicitly allowing the store to withdraw money from it...

vlyan•32 minutes ago

because global-ish exchange of goods and services for money is a deliberately convoluted experience that only a handful of well-connected entities are allowed to facilitate, which enables each and every one of them to put "we reserve the right to fuck you in the ass for any or no reason" in their ToS.

onion2k•about 1 hour ago

Has PayPal blocked GrapheneOS, or have they blocked every OS they're unable to verify and done a poor job of implementing their checks?

Hanlon's Razor is a useful tool. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

folkrav•8 minutes ago

The very fact they've managed to convince anyone that checking what OS I decide to run on the devices I own to check my own banking is any of their concern is a problem in and of itself.

4chandaily•20 minutes ago

It is a useful tool, but is largely irrelevant to this issue. To the end user, this isn't really much of a difference. Whether the cause is malice or simply not choosing to use the smallest effective brush, they are still taking an action that is preventing legitimate users from accessing the service.

redleader55•23 minutes ago

You're a banking app. Why do you need to check my phone or my os? The security is not in what phone I use, but in how sane your 2-factor auth is and if even exists.

basilikum•23 minutes ago

> have they blocked every OS they're unable to verify

This is evil in itself.

bossyTeacher•21 minutes ago

They have blocked rooted phones based on the error provided. Nothing to do with verification. They treat rooted phones to a level they don't with phones without critical security updates. That's the tension. Non-rooted phones aren't necessarily unsafer.

fylo•5 minutes ago

Graphene isn't rooted....

ThomasGlanzmann•about 1 hour ago

I'm on Debian Testing sometimes on amd64 and sometimes on m1. Paypal also doesn't like me. Than I have two options: I use a Windows VM to do the payment or I use another payment method. Most of the time I use the other payment method.

bdzr•21 minutes ago

I also ran into the eBay application being blocked just recently. Other than that I've had no issues, but I imagine this is going to become more and more common as time goes on.

StrLght•22 minutes ago

Still works for me.

I had to update exploit protection after their latest update — I think it was enabling dynamic code loading via both memory and storage that did the trick.

Retr0id•11 minutes ago

Interesting, just inferring from that it sounds like GrapheneOS's actual-security features might have been tripping up PayPal's root-detection "security" features.

(Rather than something fundamentally incompatible, like them using Play Integrity)

StrLght•4 minutes ago

There are valid RASP techniques that involve dynamic code loading, so it actually makes a lot of sense. Source: I worked on RASP long time ago :)

IMO headline is very misleading, and OP should have tried disabling all exploit protection options before jumping to any conclusions. PayPal isn't actively trying to block GrapheneOS as of now.

anonymousiam•21 minutes ago

Hopefully these stupid companies that are refusing to allow their apps to run on GrapheneOS will have a change of heart when Motorola begins launching their new phones:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2026/08/motorolas-grapheneos...

master-lincoln•1 minute ago

if there is enough money to be made they will consider it...

gnoll_of_gozag•about 1 hour ago

Can it still run in browser like it would on a regular pc?

bit1993•about 1 hour ago

I was always suspicious of GrapheneOS, thought it was too good to be true. But this makes me reconsider and want to install GrapheneOS.

nicman23•about 1 hour ago

it is great and you know that because cops are pissy about it

kissiel•about 1 hour ago

I think if paypal not working on GOS makes you not use it, then GOS is definitely not for you...

WCSTombs•43 minutes ago

They're saying the opposite, no?

aabdelhafez•about 2 hours ago

Switched to Wero and haven't looked back.

https://wero-wallet.eu

sunaookami•8 minutes ago

Wero is not a PayPal alternative. It doesn't even have buyer's protection and every bank must manually implement it which immediately makes it a failure. Some banks also connect it to your phone number so you can't link Wero to two different bank accounts with the same number when you have 2 bank accounts. Very messy.

unpopularopp•about 1 hour ago

Unfortunately peasants like us who don't live in the 5 countries where it's available still can't look back

muvlon•about 1 hour ago

You need to use your bank's app for Wero, and many EU banks' apps refuse to run on GrapheneOS for the same reasons as PayPal. This is sadly not a clear win for Wero.

therealmarv•about 1 hour ago

wait for it... I can see a future were every wallet, payment etc. app will block devices which are on custom ROMs and do not pass strong hardware integrity with blessing from Google.

I've read once that there are paid app testing labs which test if an app has root and custom ROM detection and when they don't have that it's a minus point on the report.

savwolf•28 minutes ago

Does this work in the UK?

doublerabbit•15 minutes ago

No. We left the EU, so we don't get such fun.

oniony•about 1 hour ago

The website is pages and pages of blankness for me on Firefox mobile.

savwolf•28 minutes ago

This is what really makes me question if I want to continue to use GOS, already some UK banks apps (which are app only) don't want to run. I'm considering switching back to stock as I can't be bothered to try to find hacks and workarounds for daily necessities.

leumon•about 2 hours ago

Update: it seems to work when disabling "secure app spawning" (for now)

ttouch•21 minutes ago

thank you!

zvmaz•about 1 hour ago

So it's not PayPal blocking GrapheneOS?

dennemark•28 minutes ago

Looking at the description, the title should be changed to "Contactless PayPal card does not run on GrapheneOS"

I use latest Aurora Store PayPal version and it still works. I just dont use contactless payment.

hashworks•19 minutes ago

I'm not using the contactless payment feature and get the same crash and error.

sdcfgy•about 1 hour ago

I'm starting to see these restrictions as a deterrent for using the products in question. My GOS handset is slowly fizzling away into a dumbphone with Firefox, organic maps and k9. And you know what, I am starting like it.

freakynit•about 3 hours ago

"RootDetectionSecurityException" .. there's your answer ... it doesnt't want to run on "rooted" devices.

leumon•about 3 hours ago

Well I haven't rooted my device. It's just normal grapheneos

therealmarv•about 1 hour ago

These days, root is mostly flagged via indirect indicators rather than detecting the root binary itself. For instance, detecting custom ROMs is a common clue. Does anyone remember the suhide days? ;)

tensegrist•about 1 hour ago

iirc grapheneos can't be rooted unless you do your own build

futune•8 minutes ago

That's the bizarre thing about this hn discussion... A lot of people referencing rooted phones, but to the best of my knowledge GrapheneOS is almost never rooted?

windowliker•about 1 hour ago

Isn't it more likely to be saying that the app is running with root privileges?

Grisu_FTP•about 1 hour ago

I still remember when my bank wanted me to run Android 9 instead of my Android 15 rom (without root) on my Samsung S8 because "muh security!!"

Funnily enough, the only way to hide those detections was to Root my phone... And i still remember when i had an appointment there, they wanted to see something in my Bank app, i opened it (and i assume it had an update since i then last used it) and a big "THIS DEVICE IS NOT SUPPORTED. ROOT IS NOT SUPPORTED" poped up

But was as simple as readding the bank app to my root hiders.

but still, i hate this security theater

tombardier•about 1 hour ago

Still works on my up to date pixel 9 xl. I haven't enabled NFC payments though

7r33•29 minutes ago

P10F, 2026081301, Aurora Store, secondary profile, flawless. Try harder.

doublerabbit•15 minutes ago

When threat comes knocking, the door gets bolted-shut.

hd4•about 1 hour ago

did you re-lock the bootloader?

gib444•about 2 hours ago

With or without Google Play Services running?

leumon•about 2 hours ago

With. But disabling "Secure app spawning" seems to fix it for now.

nunobrito•about 1 hour ago

Paypal doesn't work on LineageOS since a long time, even though the connections of that dubious Graphene distro with the US government are always in the horizon it is just natural that paypal doesn't work there now.

Otherwise it would just continue to raise suspicious that Graphene is favored by governments and big tech.

imska•14 minutes ago

It does work for me on lineages for microg with an Xperia 5 II. Haven't tried to activate contactless though.