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Discussion (231 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

michaelchisariabout 22 hours ago
If you've ever been in an home owned for generations, filled with books and knickknacks and heirlooms and family photos, despite the clutter it all feels comforting in a way that modern decor doesn't.

The article doesn't touch much on why modern decor emerged as it did. It's a market response where everyone needs to (or feels the need to) pick up and move at a moment's notice. Companies are either expanding or like to think they'll be expanding soon. People move jobs so often that they have a hard time feeling settled where they are, so they design for that possibility. The modern aesthetic is one of planned impermanence.

obscuretteabout 21 hours ago
I had a discussion regarding this some time ago with my grandchild who has an ADHD diagnosis. She has troubles being in noisy (especially visually) environments, yet she finds my home (relatively large home full of books, music always playing etc) comforting. She explained that all this stuff in my home is interesting for her and speaks with her - "It's you and grandma, it's full of stories". But the very modern and "must be comforting" environment in school full of patterns and pictures drawn on walls etc is just irritating – "There is no stories, just noise".
kmfrkabout 15 hours ago
The acoustics of homes with clean walls and floors can also be absolutely miserable.

Some small dining rooms amplify all the worst noises and make it terrible to be in, drains your mental battery like few other things.

theoreticalmalabout 1 hour ago
I’m so glad to see someone else who thinks this. Barren walls, vinyl flooring, 5k Kelvin lights, and scented candles everywhere. It’s like the most miserable consumerist environment imaginable.
austin-cheneyabout 6 hours ago
The noise on the walls is comforting to people on the autism spectrum, provided it’s bound by inferred structures. You have to also understand that elementary school education is almost universally female, much more so programming is male dominated. Like software, elementary school education is also a pool for adults on the autism spectrum substantially higher than general population average.
david_allisonabout 5 hours ago
> Like software, elementary school education is also a pool for adults on the autism spectrum substantially higher than general population average.

Interesting! Do you have a source for this?

wafflemakerabout 4 hours ago
Can you write more thoughts or describe some situations?
singingtodayabout 21 hours ago
That's such a great insight. Thank you for sharing this.
appreciatorBusabout 22 hours ago
I am skeptical this is the origin of modern decor. The trend away from ornamentation, toward simplicity, flatness, etc in design goes back several generations and transcends interior design.

If the thesis was true, we'd expect rich people who will never be compelled to move against their will, or to move into less space, would prefer cluttered homey interiors, and poor people would prefer sparse & modern. In reality, the biggest boosters of modern decor are rich people.

analog31about 21 hours ago
Here's the story that made sense to me: In the pre industrial age, visible ornamentation was symbolic of a craftsman's skill and attention to detail, when you couldn't inspect the invisible aspects of a product. For instance a violin has an ornately carved scroll, and features such as the "bees sting," whereas you can't take it apart to see if the neck mortise is precisely fitted. It is one of the few pre-industrial-age products whose aesthetics have not changed much.

Today, those features are no longer necessary, and we look for other measures of quality in products -- for better or worse.

I grew up in a "midcentury modern" house, and my family lives in one today. I find the modern decor to be comforting because in my case it reminds me of home. My mom claimed that the sparse decor was easier to maintain, for instance: "There are no knick-knacks to dust around." Truth be told, the house also happened to be available during a very frothy market, and my spouse would have chosen something more traditional.

It's also claimed that the simpler decor works in smaller houses.

We were not rich. The MCM houses in my 'hood, including ours, are certainly not clutter free, yet still feel pleasant and comfortable.

AJ007about 20 hours ago
What are we talking about here? I didn't read the full article but I looked at the synopsis at the top: "Striped patterns, flickering lights, bright glare, and crowded visual environments such as supermarkets"

With the exclusion of striped patterns, this just sounds like a typical over lit commercial environments, probably overhead fluorescent lights, maybe lights and screens running at different refresh rates. That has nothing to do with home decor of any era or culture.

Also I'm guessing the acoustics are consistently horrible in these environments too. Air quality probably sucks too.

appreciatorBusabout 18 hours ago
With all due respect, if you bought a house during a frothy market, and you use words like “mid-century modern, you are 100% part of the elite class, even if you don’t consider yourself rich. Maybe you are part of the top 10% instead of the top 1%, but that top 10% or 20% is exactly the class I was referring to.
WillAdamsabout 22 hours ago
Only the rich can afford to own nothing/exert effort to have empty space without consequence.

Ordinary folks when presented with an object have to perform a mental calculation over the cost/inconvenience of storage vs. disposal and if wanted again, replacement.

fcarraldoabout 21 hours ago
The rich also can afford to keep their minimalist modern spaces clean and clutter-free, through paying staff. These environments tend to look awful when not tended to continuously because a single out-of-place item is so clearly visible.

Cluttered old homes with lots of things all over the place make it a bit less jarring when there's a stack of work left out on a table.

snozolliabout 21 hours ago
Only the rich can afford to own nothing/exert effort to have empty space without consequence.

Reminds me of the reason that grass yards exist: to show the world that one can afford land for the sake of owning it, rather than for growing crops.

Retricabout 21 hours ago
Travel / multiple homes confuse the issue because nobody spends much time on their 5th house they use less than a month per year, so the decoration is mostly outsourced to 3rd parties.

The portion of rich people homes they actually use are often quite cluttered. The simple limitation of needing to walk to a room to use it means spreading out across a huge home gets annoying. Semi public spaces for guests on the other hand can look like hotels because that’s effectively what they are.

bluGillabout 20 hours ago
Space is a factor too. I toured the mansion one time a few years back because a friend of mine was remodeling it. The master bedroom was as large as my entire house. That's a single bedroom for the two people planned to live there. I saw it while it was still under construction and so completely unlivable and but you could quickly figure out which parts were intended for the people lived there to live in and which parts were semi-public most of the mansion was clearly public spaces where they would have parties.
Al-Khwarizmiabout 5 hours ago
If the thesis was true, we'd expect rich people who will never be compelled to move against their will, or to move into less space, would prefer cluttered homey interiors, and poor people would prefer sparse & modern. In reality, the biggest boosters of modern decor are rich people.

Are you sure? Maybe some of them are, but it's also quite typical of rich people to live in a refurbished 19th century home with ornate mouldings, antique furniture, bookshelves, rugs, paintings, and a large amount of carefully curated "clutter". While working-class people almost universally move towards minimalism when they renovate, with the rich it's much more divided.

andaiabout 4 hours ago
I saw this comic once, of a big empty hall. "Only the rich can afford this much nothing."

I walked past a bank later and it looked almost exactly the same. (I guess that's where the money is!)

inigyouabout 17 hours ago
I believe in practice yes. It isn't a planned design choice - it's just a practical consequence that if you are moving around a lot, carrying possessions with you has a much higher cost than if you are staying in the same place. You'll be more averse to accumulating possessions. If you are staying in one place, you only have to reduce your possessions when you start running out of space.
bluegattyabout 21 hours ago
'modernism' is a 20th century design concept.
yubblegumabout 19 hours ago
> I am skeptical this is the origin of modern decor. The trend away from ornamentation, toward simplicity, flatness, etc in design goes back several generations and transcends interior design.

You should be. Modernism is an ideological design response: the aesthetics of the machine age and utilitarianism.

OP's opinion is not based on actual design and architecture history and (ironically) appears to be itself an ideological narrative: a posthoc criticism of Modern (yes with cap M) design which itself has its root in conservative reaction against the (asserted, alleged and possibly true) socialist tendencies of the elite social and design circles that gave birth to Modernism. Note, for example, the 'emotional' appeal to long lived in homes, etc.

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20230103-the-historical-...

smallnixabout 21 hours ago
Trends, status signalling?
throwaway5752about 21 hours ago
This is a false dichotomy. The modern style is a reaction against a distinct and different design aesthetic from what the parent described. Neoclassical, Gothic Revival, and Rococo are more ornamental, but they not cozy or comfortable in the same way.

This being said, the title is accurate to the article but misleading. The subtitle is about "Striped Floors and Flickering LEDs". It isn't modern design, it's specific elements of modern design.

I'd suggest that the striped/patterned floors/LED points transcend styles, and would cause issues even in a more ornate/classical design. Style is individual, and I expect the diversities of brains and thinking patterns means that there is no right answer for what style is best for people.

The most interesting part of the article wasn't really reflective of style, it was visually crowded environments. They used the example of supermarkets, and that seems distinct from a visually rich style like the grandparent comment's home or Neo Gothic cathedrals. Being in a forest is visually crowded, too, but I'd expect it has the opposite effect the study measured. I think the fractal dimension of the detail, if they correlated it with the degree of distress, would be a factor.

pishpashabout 21 hours ago
Ornate and simple alternate back and forth in a reactionary preference cycle in history. We may be in a 'simple' phase but there is a nostalgic backlash happening with pre-digital aesthetics, and as evidenced here.
rr808about 21 hours ago
My parents lived in the same house for 40 years, my entire childhood was there. My grandparents (both sets) lived in their house for 50 years. I can't comprehend how Americans keep moving for jobs or to upgrade or to get to a better school district. Surely you want some permanence? Get to know your neighbors?

Edit yes I did move around in my twenties, but that stopped at 30.

Spooky23about 21 hours ago
Remember people marry later if at all so you break the cohort developments of growing up and adulting.

I helped lead my local little league. It’s different than it used to be - it’s pretty typical to have tball parents in their 40s. A group of parents from 20s to 50s aren’t going to hang out, they don’t relate. I’m a late genx, most of my friends parents were in their 30s when I was a little leaguer.

The demise of old line churches is similar. We did CYO basketball in the same parish my wife did. It’s the last of what was 8-10 catholic parishes in my city. And unlike in my youth where you had good mix multigenerational parishioners… the parish survives based on the beneficence of 5-10 people in their late 60s and 70s, with few people rising to behind them. Mainline Protestant parishes are similar. The only growth in religious communities are independent Baptists, which are great but integrate into the broader community differently, because each church mostly stands alone and isn’t part of a bigger system.

frogpersonabout 21 hours ago
Church groups, or at least an awful lot of them, were co-opted by groups like the Council For National Policy (parent group of the Heritage Foundation). I think a lot of younger folks see through the BS and don't want to send their time listening to hate speech discussed as gospel.

These churches chose thier path, and so did their parishioners.

Timwiabout 19 hours ago
Not sure how to feel about your implication that unmarried people are neither grown up nor adults.
cosmic_cheeseabout 20 hours ago
Problem is, unless you happen to live in a relatively wealthy neighborhood, even if you stay put your neighbors and community probably won’t so you still won’t have much permanence.
marssaxmanabout 20 hours ago
I really don't want permanence, no! I start to feel fidgety and uncomfortable after I've spent too many years in one place. The idea of living in a single house for decades on end sounds like a kind of imprisonment.

I think of Seattle as "home", and once lived there for twenty-three years straight - but I had nine different addresses during that time. I am probably more of a nomad at heart than the average American, but perhaps Americans have more of a nomadic temperament than the average human.

Getting to know your neighbors can be a mixed bag. Sometimes you make a great new friend: sometimes you're stuck with an obstreperous busybody. It can be nice not having to spend your whole life dealing with the same people and the same conflicts.

kakacikabout 19 hours ago
Yeah tight communities are blessing, nightmare or both. Good luck with privacy, some people are nosy by default or simply self-centered... weirdos to be polite, gossip, looking down on differences, hard to integrate for newcomers, and one has to conform to unspoken rules, like them or not. Not exactly feeling of proper freedom, is it.

If you get into beef with your neighbor for something which is trivial over long time, now you are stuck with an asshole next door for next 30-50 years.

Its not just US, we moved in Switzerland from very cosmopolitan and international Geneva to small village in wineyards and all this applies at least as much.

ip26about 19 hours ago
You describe it like it’s some kind of a treadmill chasing new. But if you have kids at 35, they start school when you’re 40.. were you thinking about the quality of the neighborhood schools when you bought your house at 25?

Or suppose you meet your spouse when you are 30, after you bought a house.

There’s inherently much less moving-around if you get married at 18 and have kids straight away - the plan is settled from the start.

xyzelementabout 19 hours ago
Is it really an American thing? Every company's London office is filled with Germans, French, Italians and polaks/Russian. How'd they get there
StefanBatoryabout 6 hours ago
I am very interested in why you both chose to single Poles out with this, used lowercase AND used slur here.

> and polaks

greygoo222about 18 hours ago
The world is so big, why spend 40 years in a single place?
inigyouabout 17 hours ago
As with many things, you can go broad, or you can go deep. Not both. You can go one and then the other.

I expect society is best with a mix of both types of people. It usually is.

znpyabout 18 hours ago
Lay down roots, be part of a community, have meaningful connections.

My parents live in southern Italy, in the same small town my mother is from and the small town my father is from is like 5-6 km far.

Every time there is some kind of event (eg: somebody’s parents passing away) it so hearth-warming to see people come together and try and be close to people they’ve known all their life (60+ years).

I moved to a large town nowadays for work and i have a bunch of superficial connections, my peers lament pretty much the same.

I can see why somebody would like to stay 40 years in the same place.

jacobolusabout 20 hours ago
Housing has gotten much more expensive in many places, and jobs less stable.
Insanityabout 22 hours ago
This resonates with me. I enjoy being at my grandparents’ home. And it’s exactly as you mentioned, if I would describe all the stuff in the living room it’d be called “cluttered”. Yet it feels “homey” and I feel pretty relaxed whenever I sit there to read a book.

And then on my side, for the past 15 years I moved to a new place about every 2-3 years. Never really invested in making it feel “homey” because I’m not sure how much space I’d have in the next place I move to.

SoftTalkerabout 22 hours ago
I think there's a lot of unappreciated benefits in "staying put." Of course if you're living in a bad situation that might not be true, and it might not be good for your career or for other material reasons, but it can be good for your mental health. My parents owned one house, and we never moved. I grew up there and I still own it. I don't live there currently but every time I am in that house I'm calm, relaxed, and comfortable almost immediately. It's nothing fancy, just a normal ranch house, but it's very familiar and full of memories.
tekneabout 18 hours ago
This explains a lot... I feel bad when I think about staying put. Forward always feels better. It's like one of the fundamental axes, I guess.
bear141about 22 hours ago
I see where you are coming from and I think this is an interesting observation. Especially when talking about companies and people moving apartments every year.

I grew up in a house full of the clutter that you describe as comforting, but for me it felt smothering. I recently inherited the house I grew up in and now have it set up much less cluttered. I don’t plan to live anywhere else anytime soon, but for me the lack of clutter and clear spaces are much more comforting.

I am definitely not a fan of crazy colors or patterns or bad lighting either though.

INTPenisabout 2 hours ago
Depends on your perspective. Yes I grew up with that type of decor, but it doesn't comfort me today because all I can think of are all the knocks and crannies where dust and pollen doesn't get cleaned out of.
_the_inflatorabout 4 hours ago
I agree with you.

Victimhood par excellence: "My brain is a 200+ IQ machine desperately waiting for input. However, I cannot feed it! It is the walls, I guess."

It should be legally enforced to place every author's smartphone usage statistics into such articles. No interior design on earth can compensate for 40 hours TikTok usage per week.

And we didn't mention other streaming services as well.

It might be the smartphone usage as well as time spend.

nicbouabout 15 hours ago
A home you inhabit for a long time molds to your day-to-day life. The objects you surround yourself with are not a design choice, but a series of practical solutions to everyday problems. A house becomes a home when you absent-mindedly put down your favourite teacup, and it falls on the coaster you put there five years ago. There's a pillow that makes your reading chair fit just right. The art on the walls was curated over years, and each piece means something.

Modern decor is what happens when you just go on Pinterest and outsource taste for a place you don't own and don't expect to live in for long. It feels sterile because it does not represent any specific person, only an algorithmically-designed aesthetic built from off-the-shelf components.

I help immigrants move to Germany, and I think that people only become Berliners when they can put their own art on the walls. It means that they finally get a sense of permanence, and have a space of their own that they want to invest in. It changes your whole perception of the city you live in.

ShinyLeftPadabout 1 hour ago
Even those homes these days are all LED that flicker during saccades.
alehlopehabout 21 hours ago
The article is about office decor, not home decor. While I don't love "modern decor," I don't think offices are meant to feel comforting like a home owned for generations.
pishpashabout 21 hours ago
If anything, offices are likely designed to not feel comfortable so you are forced to focus on your screen and work. Otherwise, rooms were more comfortable than cubicles, cubicles were more comfortable than open benches, open benches will be more comfortable than whatever AI-adjacent abomination surely to come...
skyberrysabout 20 hours ago
Really curious to imagine what these AI-adjacent abominations could be. Some sort of people conveyor belt we have to work on while rotating past other humans to achieve maximum 'collaboration' perhaps? Offices built into semi trucks so we get picked up and crammed together with our laptops and screens? When will it stop!
mgfistabout 19 hours ago
> The article doesn't touch much on why modern decor emerged as it did

The theory I subscribe to is a few fold:

1) People like to buy "generic" homes that are easier to renovate/personalize 2) But then they don't end up personalizing, because they're afraid to tank it's market value 3) Thus homes stay boring and generic

dfcabout 21 hours ago
What design trends can be attributed to people's desire to pick up and move at a moment notice?
inigyouabout 17 hours ago
Not having bookcases full of books, for example.

My dad's lived in the same house for over 15 years and probably expected as much when he moved in. He has a room with old books covering the walls, which he never reads. If he moved house every year, he'd have to throw out or donate the collection.

agumonkeyabout 16 hours ago
I see strange market forces where companies need to be trendy, so they absorb what's in the air, and then people kinda have no choice but to buy it. Nobody really wanted to but it materializes.

Around me every house now has tall anthracite fully closed fences. It's gloomy as hell, streets went from cute garden with wood fences to lock-down mode in a few years. It's all the same model, all the same vibe..

mike_hockabout 20 hours ago
The article also doesn't touch on whether visually cluttered "traditional" decor is better for people affected by those conditions.

I found the office in the picture quite pleasant to look at. Not comforting and homey but suitable as a work environment.

sandworm101about 5 hours ago
It is old money v new money. Old money has things. If they want to go skiing, they have a set of skis in the garage and a family cabin near the slopes. If they want to go fishing, they have a boat ready on a trailer. New money isnt about having thing but having power to acquire, to congure up things as needed. New money doesn't own skis. New money rents them. New money doesnt have a boat parked behind thier garage, they have an empty (minimalist) garage and will buy a boat a month before the trip, having it delivered to the lake by someone who owns work gloves. Old money collects a household of things over decades. New money leaves a trail of discarded junk that was used once and disposed of shortly thereafter.
qwertyuiop_about 10 hours ago
Spot on ! Just watch Columbo and tell me how you feel after observing the decor.

https://tubitv.com/series/300006728/columbo

ErroneousBoshabout 20 hours ago
> It's a market response where everyone needs to (or feels the need to) pick up and move at a moment's notice.

You see the same thing with cars. People choose to buy (or more commonly lease!) a car for a few years and before they've even decided to buy it they're planning to sell it. This is why there are so many sad grey cars on the road - pick a colour that's easy to sell! Don't get anything too wild, it might not sell! What if you can't sell it because it's red or blue?!!? Don't go too crazy with that very pale blue tinted grey, they might not be able to sell it for as much and you won't get much from the leasing company!

There's a guy in my town who has a Porsche 992, it's only a few years old. He bought it as his retirement present to himself when he packed in his job at the start of COVID. It has all the options, and it has custom paint.

It is what I can only describe as Budget-Conscious Prosthetic Limb beige.

That kind of pinky-beige colour for NHS hearing aid plastic.

It cost him 1500 quid to even get it mixed, thousands extra to have it sprayed that colour.

"But what if it doesn't sell?" people say to him, "What if people don't like the colour?"

He doesn't care, he's going to drive it for the rest of his life. It'll be someone else's problem to sell once he dies.

bluGillabout 20 hours ago
I'm told that because so many cars are the ugly gray that cars have color are selling better nowadays. It may be only a minority that want color, but that minority is willing to pay for it and they look at their choices and your car is the only one they can go for.

I don't normally care about color myself, but I hate thr color my car is enough that I'm wondering if I should spend the several couple thousand dollars to put a decent coat of paint on it.

mlrtimeabout 2 hours ago
A 911 is sort of an exception to the rule. 95%+ of 911s are custom ordered by vs a common brand where the manufacturer is making them in batches with common colors/options for dealerships.

Even farther on the spectrum is Lamborghini where 100% are all custom made. You can't buy one from a dealership [new] that hasn't been custom ordered.

Someone will buy that 911 if/when he decides to sell it and have no problems getting a good price.

inigyouabout 17 hours ago
I don't need to drive, luckily, but I heard that cars cost so much these days that you really have to be planning to get back as much money as possible. Cars cost what shitty houses used to cost, even adjusted for inflation.
ajsnigrutinabout 17 hours ago
A lot of the new designs are actually practical.... be it striped carpets or patterned bus seats, they're designed to hide stains and wear. If eg. bus seats were made from white fabric, no one would want to sit in them after a month or two of use, same for eg. carpets in places with many people.
ericmayabout 21 hours ago
> It's a market response where everyone needs to (or feels the need to) pick up and move at a moment's notice.

Yes, but it's deeper than that. Two broad reasons, though your point here is a good one.

1. We don't, particularly in the west, have the skills, shops/craftsmen, or access to resources to make things like we used to. It's a positive network effect where prices go up, folks don't do the work anymore, and so prices go up, and things get more unaffordable, and so forth until there's only a handful of folks anywhere that can build the furniture, decor, or houses that you allude to. Companies can't make this stuff and as they chase never ending globalized supply chains and increasingly fewer commodities or natural resources they market and sell plainer and plainer things - modernist styles and modernist architecture. With so many people in the world competing for the same products and resources, it's incredibly expensive to build anything "real" or with much detail or thought. So companies just cheap out and create surrogate products which nobody is ever happy with.

2. The changes we see in style can be attributed to changes in politics and civilization. Who we are and what we think of ourselves. It's bad or even politically dangerous to build ornate buildings or purchase expensive or ornate pieces for your home. How could you build a beautiful building when there are people starving?!?! (you see a version of this with rocket companies - how can Jeff Bezos spend his money launching rockets when Social Security is underfunded!!?!?)

Any sufficiently famous building or person who liked nice shit was a "colonizer" and "bad person" in some form or because of some argument and then of course over time folks just hide their wealth (stealth wealth, millionaire next door) and we pride ourselves on appearing poor, acting poor, and naturally, we create poor civilizations without much to aspire to. When was the last time you wore a suit and tie? Better yet, who in your town can even make a suit? Who is going to die for strip malls and parking lots? Who wants to invest in their neighborhood when you know instinctively it's just a house and it's not something you will really pass down to your children (they will just sell that suburban home you have). Americans in particular spend thousands annually to travel to countries in Europe for example, and to visit their gardens and nice buildings, which themselves are vestiges of an age when western civilization aspired to more, and why do they only do that instead of investing in their own gardens and making their own nice places for people to visit? We do this of course to some extent - it's big country after all, but those who understand this and why it's important are fewer and further between.

michaelchisariabout 21 hours ago
The first point is solid. The loss of craftsmanship means that the labor cost of those who remain has skyrocketed. That's an irony of devaluing labor is that those who hold on to their craft end up in very high demand.

That said, you overestimate how much "colonizer" discourse informs the average suburban home or modern office environment. That discourse isn't even particularly dominant amongst the left (often clowned as "third-worldist", reductionist or class denialism).

The average leftists apartment or home has more in common with your great-grandfather's house than stark, modern minimalism.

ericmayabout 20 hours ago
The "colonizer" rhetoric is just part of it, but it's more so as a piece of the puzzle that shows of an overall change in how we perceive ourselves and how we report on things in the public sphere.

It's unquestionable that ostentatious displays of wealth are met with revulsion and derision, therefore we don't show those displays. The downstream impact is that the masses have nothing to aspire to or look up to in this specific context of craftsmanship. Again, when was the last time "you" wore a suit? Was it tailored? Do you only wear it at weddings? Do you buy your clothing from Costco/Kirkland? Do you find yourself in the fast food line at Chik-fil-a or driving across town to Buc-ee's in your Jeep? These kinds of consumerist behaviors are good and accepted. If you tell someone you only eat at tasting menus or high end restaurants or something instead of those being celebrated as good you'll be met with incredulity or even be made fun of "you're so fancy" "ugh if only I could afford that", and then it devolves into mass-market "experiences" and so forth. (As you read the rest of this post remember that I'm critiquing capitalism here as well).

Because Wimbledon is ongoing and the ladies championship was today, how many complain about the players being required to wear all-white? How many have complained once the champion's dance was re-established? Do you think it's silly or stupid? You're part of the problem! It's considered classism - but without it, you get sterilization. Reduction to the lowest common denominator.

In general, leftist ideologies, so think communism and other sympathies, result in minimalist architecture and decor and art, because grand displays of wealth or even the concept of "rank" with respect to members of society evoke royalty, "white European male", and "let them eat cake". To flaunt your wealth or aspire to be part of a country club or to invent new social organizations and elite activities is to be on the receiving end of the social hammer. You can't have nice stuff because that goes against the doctrine. I'm painting in broad strokes here, but I think this is accurate. It's no accident that all of the best buildings were built under royalist regimes, monarchies, and more.

And because of the disgust and vitriol and crabs pulling other crabs down as they try to escape the bucket, now we are just left with wealthy losers who have forgotten their noblesse oblige.

> That discourse isn't even particularly dominant amongst the left (often clowned as "third-worldist", reductionist or class denialism).

I think this is just flatly false. You've probably just seen it so much and it has become so common to you that you've become less sensitive to it. Leftists in particular are very in-tune with class warfare. I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said, and I'm paraphrasing, culture wars are a distraction from the real war, class war. I see stuff like this all the time: https://www.amazon.com/American-Magnet-War-Class-Text/dp/B09... .

ClumsyPilotabout 4 hours ago
> We don't, particularly in the west, have the skills, shops/craftsmen, or access to resources

It’s worse than that, most consumers don’t even know what good looks like any more. We are much more restricted and maybe lower variety of experience.

You could serve half the consumers rat meat instead of beef and they wouldn’t know the difference.

> The changes we see in style can be attributed to changes in politics and civilization. Who we are and what we think of ourselves.

There is something to this even if the way this is expressed is clumsy

inigyouabout 17 hours ago
"colonizer" has a specific meaning, it doesn't mean "someone you don't like"
AlexandrBabout 3 hours ago
In theory, yes. In practice it's just used as an epithet against specific groups. For instance, you almost never hear folks from South America being called colonizers despite how Spain and Portugal carved up that continent, meanwhile Jews are frequently called colonizers of their own ancestral homeland.
bob1029about 20 hours ago
The biggest revelation I've had regarding interior design is to stop using overhead lights. Anyone who has ever worked in the games industry will tell you that lighting is the most important element of what makes a scene look a certain way. The crazy thing about lamps is you can put them anywhere. They only use a constant amount of power regardless of scene complexity. Lighting in my GPU is definitely more expensive.

When everything in your house is illuminated from point lights stuck in holes in the ceiling, you only get a visual hierarchy along an axis you mostly cannot use (Y/up/down). When the lights are positioned at vertical midpoints, you get visual hierarchy on the X-Z (horizontal) plane which is generally how we are viewing our environment. The layering of shadow and highlights across a room are a lot less stressful to interpret. You can use a lot less total light and still convey required detail in the scene.

layer8about 19 hours ago
I like this, but to play the devil’s advocate: How does that mesh with usually having just one giant overhead light (the sun) outdoors?
xandriusabout 19 hours ago
You mean one giant overhead light (the sun) during "work hours" and a soft reddish ground-level light (the campfire) during night?
jay_kyburzabout 19 hours ago
Its moves, and twice a day its nice and low like a lamp. In the middle of the day when its highest, its nice to shelter under a tree where there is dappled light filtering through the leaves.
idopmstuffabout 22 hours ago
The Limitations section at the bottom certainly has a lot of limitations:

> This paper is a review, meaning it synthesizes and interprets existing research rather than presenting new experimental data. The authors themselves note that current visual tests for susceptibility to discomfort are subjective and poorly standardized. They also acknowledge that the proposed mechanism (that discomfort is the brain’s response to overwork) has not been fully tested, particularly the hypothesis that colored tints reduce discomfort by steering visual stimulation away from overactive brain areas. The relationship between the brain’s excitatory and inhibitory chemical signals and visual discomfort also remains, in their words, “unsettled.” Several key research questions are flagged as unresolved, including how to best quantify the real-world impact of visual stress on people’s lives and how to objectively measure susceptibility.

Flickering lights are about the only thing I saw in here that seem like they'd be a problem in the long term. Everything else your brain just adjusts to over time and stops noticing. Maybe the first few days in an office with bright colors would be slightly distracting, but after that you just stop seeing them. I would guess that a lot of the studies they reviewed probably tested people's reactions to these things when they saw them one time, not the hundredth time.

MajorTakeawayabout 22 hours ago
The article does explicitly state that the brain doesn't adapt to this.

From the article:

"And when the brain encounters something it can’t process efficiently, it doesn’t simply adapt. Brain imaging studies cited in the review show it generates stronger neural responses in visual areas, consumes more oxygen, and in some people produces pain, distortion, or worse."

idopmstuffabout 22 hours ago
I assume you're referring to this:

> And when the brain encounters something it can’t process efficiently, it doesn’t simply adapt. Brain imaging studies cited in the review show it generates stronger neural responses in visual areas, consumes more oxygen, and in some people produces pain, distortion, or worse.

If the studies are of a person's initial exposure to these sorts of conditions, then that doesn't tell us anything about whether people adapt over time (and to be clear I have not read all the studies, but given the limitations listed I'm comfortable assuming they're not incredibly robust until someone tells me otherwise). I suspect the article's use of the word "adapt" is not the same as mine; from the context when they say the brain doesn't adapt they just mean that it shows a response at the time of the particular exposure they're measuring.

BobbyTables2about 21 hours ago
Seems like the first half of that could be flipped as a disadvantage.

Imagine someone claiming the opposite causes dementia, evidenced by reduced oxygen usage and lowered brain activity…

alpinismeabout 21 hours ago
I don’t think it needs to be “flipped”…that’s the plain reading, isn’t it?
Cpollabout 21 hours ago
I think there were studies on this, leading to, among other things, painting control rooms seafoam green to reduce visual fatigue. This implies that people don't simply adjust (or that the studies were too limited).
Alien1Beingabout 6 hours ago
This book by Frida Ramstedt walks through the principles of interior decor, without touting the latest trend.

There are no pretty pictures in it, just text discussing basic principles.

https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/0593139313

The Interior Design Handbook by Frida Ramstedt

For our new house, I used this book along with an experienced interior designer and discussions with a number of interior designers.

Far from being expensive, the designer probably saved us around 10 times her charges, by gently pointing out more practical and durable alternatives to my half baked ideas. And we ended up with a nice cozy, accessible, human friendly house.

For our garden, we used a garden designer ( not a landscape designer, they just stick hard surfaces everywhere ) who specialises in Piet Oudolf's New Perennial style.

meindnochabout 22 hours ago
>Eyes and brain alike evolved over millennia to process natural scenes, forests, rivers, coastlines, open skies. These environments share a specific mathematical pattern: their visual complexity decreases predictably as you zoom in on finer and finer details.

Wut? It's precisely the opposite. Natural patterns have infinite complexity as you zoom in, and human-made patterns (most often) not.

Diogenesianabout 21 hours ago
Yeah, "shockingly" the LLM summary has it wrong. The paper is really focusing on luminance contrast: the variation in contrast within a natural object tends to be narrower than the variation between objects, and the neural metabolism of our visual system tends to be optimized towards a natural range of contrasts. Modern high-contrast decor and lighting is way out of natural balance, and for some people it can be exhausting.

"Visual complexity" is just wrong: simple black / hot pink stripes are visually exhausting upon immediate perception, whereas the monochromatically brown detail of a tree trunk is only visually exhausting on close inspection.

God, what a useless website. I hate LLMs. The actual paper is here: https://www.mdpi.com/2411-5150/10/2/34

SoftTalkerabout 22 hours ago
Natural patterns are often fractal.
VeninVidiaViciiabout 21 hours ago
I’m pretty sure they mean perceptible complexity at the level of the human eye. Of course, everything has quarks and leptons in infinitely complex patterning.
meindnochabout 19 hours ago
>I’m pretty sure they mean perceptible complexity at the level of the human eye

That's precisely what they're wrong about.

Take a look at tree branches. A field of grass. A stone cliff.

Now take a look at human-made decor: drywall, plastic, laminated boards.

Which one has more visual detail?

kulahanabout 16 hours ago
Our brains evolved in the former environment, and is very good at filtering it out. I've got pretty extreme ADHD, and if I'm in a room and something on the wall is flittering about, I absolutely must look at it. If I'm in a field and a tree is full of leaves billowing in the wind, it's a nice background thing. I guess my monkey brain is too busy looking for tiger faces to be distracted by flickering leaves, flowing grass, and flying bugs for more than a half second.

I dunno if I agree with their arguments in the paper (there seem to be some pretty big questions unanswered yet, which the authors acknowledge), but there's definitely something to the idea that natural environments aren't as stressful for us, even if they're objectively "busier".

jmbwellabout 20 hours ago
One characteristic that differentiates contemporary design from all our grandparents’ houses is transience rather than permanence. Design immediately following WWI was largely about calm and comfort; the emergence of the den, cottage-cozy, spaces for reading, listening to the radio, etc — stability, calm, people wanted everything the war wasn’t. Immediately following WWII was different in different parts of the world but especially in North America there were all these industrial manufacturers wanting to sell The Future, and you get on the one hand gleaming kitchen-forward spaces and two car garages and rooms for entertaining. Less built-in bookshelves, more built-in HiFi. And on the other hand, the sort of refuge or counterpoint, more integration with nature, more natural materials, exposed timber and vaulted ceilings and giant windows, frank lloyd wright. And in all these cases, the ideas were rooted in stability and permanence. The space was designed for its uses and its inhabitants.

More recently, it’s less about the buyers and more about the sellers. Design is optimized for flipping, which means fast market movement, which means generic. Yes there is always cookie-cutter, especially in postwar housing boom. Modern markets have just embraced that more fully. Offices don’t embody the tenants identity, or if they do it’s the same as all the other companies “in the space.” Everyone wants to look like Google, at best, otherwise it’s about commodity layouts, finishes, and styles… platforms for cubicles and bulk furniture purchases that can be amortized over the lease. Housing is similar… design for a family that will scatter once the kids leave home and the parents retire elsewhere. Or the inverse… design for Airbnb until the owners are ready to retire and move in or sell off. In any case the inhabitants are a secondary consideration to returns on investment. Design is a cost center to a financial concern.

Unless you’re rich enough not to care about any of this, in which case there’s finally time and space and money for design, but none of it really matters

sirwittiabout 18 hours ago
One aspect that is often overlooked is a room acoustics - especially reverb time. Have you ever felt cosy in a large church?

Or, if you have ever been to a wedding and wondered why everybody started talking louder and louder and it's hard to understand, a room with too large reverb time is a very probable causes. This is very draining mentally.

The same goes for living spaces, especially since newer homes tend to use lots of smooth surfaces like glass, tiles and concrete, which increase reverb time a lot.

Book shelves, curtains and furniture will increase a room's diffusiveness and reduce reverb time, making rooms feel so much better.

bob1029about 16 hours ago
The most important aspect of a room's acoustic performance are its dimensions. Rectangular rooms have 3 axial modes that dominate. These modes are easily excited and store energy which you perceive as rumbling, booming, droning, etc. A very small input can get a large room going like crazy if it is mechanically coupled to the room in any way. Even decoupled sources (your neighbor's home theater system) can easily excite the axial modes.

Any dimension longer than 28' is going to pass the infrasonic threshold (20hz). This tends to be OK as you go further into it. Humans are sensitive to infrasound, but often not at this level of intensity. However, designing rooms with all dimensions larger than this exceeds the limits of most practical residential real estate.

An 8' dimension would give you a 70hz fundamental. This is quite audible, but also in a range of frequencies where treatments like bass traps are very effective.

The room dimension range between 10' and 28' is where the dragons live. These frequencies are audible and significantly more difficult to treat. They will cut right through treatments like rockwool and mass loaded vinyl as if they didn't exist.

One of the best mitigations is to simply not have rectangular rooms. The second best is to have really small ones. Older homes tend to feel cozier because the room fundamentals are not in that weird range.

ryankrage77about 3 hours ago
When testing speakers, I discovered my room (or house) is resonant around 40Hz. On most other frequencies the speaker was quiet, at 40Hz it felt like the room was shaking. I wonder if the effect of vehicle noise (I'm between a large road and train tracks, and near an airport) is amplified by this, though I've not noticed any impact - then again, it's not as though the vehicles are generating constant sine waves, and I don't have a quieter baseline to compare to.
oleleleabout 18 hours ago
So many bars & restaurants don't care enough about this.
gib444about 5 hours ago
Given coffee shops etc hire psychologists to select annoying music to optimise revenue, I wouldn't rule out bad acoustics as a choice (particularly larger chains)

Though with bars and restaurants being brutally hard to survive and turn a decent profit, I would mostly attribute it to just cutting costs

inigyouabout 17 hours ago
We had this when we moved from an old brick office to a new bigger one full of glass panels. We had to fill the new office with random planters and other stuff or it was uncomfortably echoey
bluebarbetabout 17 hours ago
Possibly the first convincing argument I have ever heard in favor of the materialistic accumulative American lifestyle.
kulahanabout 16 hours ago
You don't need to live a consumerist lifestyle to have a home that's properly outfitted (curtains), comfy (rugs, chairs), and quiet (walls/divisions).

Also for a fun large-scale argument: we're relatively sheltered from global depressions. All we really have to do is convince Americans to keep spending money and it kinda works out, because the whole economy is structured around that anyways.

That's also why the economy is in the dumper right now (not counting tech companies), and why the consumer confidence index is so important to our various economists.

bluebarbetabout 16 hours ago
Sheltered from global depressions maybe, but ultimately not from ecological breakdown caused by the externalities of uncontrolled resource throughput.

But your broader point is well taken.

Alien1Beingabout 6 hours ago
"Modern decor" is different from contemporary decor.

For instance actual lighting designers look with contempt at the kind of lighting mentioned in the article as a 1970's trend, that was in turn influenced by the 1930's Bauhaus.

Modern lighting uses layered lighting to create a cozy ambience and human friendly small pools of warm illumination.

See : https://talalighting.com/blogs/journal/how-to-layer-light-in...

Al-Khwarizmiabout 6 hours ago
I don't really know what to take away from this piece. I think I might be misunderstanding something.

On the one hand, "Eyes and brain alike evolved over millennia to process natural scenes, forests, rivers, coastlines, open skies. These environments share a specific mathematical pattern: their visual complexity decreases predictably as you zoom in on finer and finer details" - What, isn't it just the opposite? Coastlines and many plants are famously fractal, and in general, if you zoom into nature you will see a lot of detail, while in artificial objects you will often see a uniform sufrace.

On the other hand, "Repetitive grids, stark contrasts, and uniform surfaces have replaced the organic variation of earlier styles" - Okay, I get that grids are bad, but if the problem is too much detail and visual stimulation, why are uniform sources a problem? Is high complexity good or bad?

The only clear ideas that I take from this is that grids = bad, and flickering LED lightning = bad (and I don't really know how to choose LEDs that don't flicker...).

mlrtimeabout 2 hours ago
They are difficult to find locally and expensive.

Look for Waveform or Phillips Ultra.

rationalistabout 1 hour ago
FWIW: I am sensitive to high-frequency flickering lights, and the cheap LED light bulbs at Home Depot do not bother me at all.
felooboolooombaabout 3 hours ago
In addition, Sensory Processing Sensitivity/Disorder (SPS/SPD) tends to go with ADHD or people on the spectrum. Personally think those people are over represented in our line or work (IT/Tech).

The headline picture in that article is pure hell for me.

nilirlabout 22 hours ago
This website is straining my brain. Ads that bounce around? Sheesh.
marticode28 minutes ago
Lucky you, at least you can load it. My IP (from a generic run of the mill ISP) just seems outright blocked.
ejflickabout 17 hours ago
I can’t decide if it’s obnoxious or beautiful irony that drives home the idea of the article.
drnick1about 19 hours ago
It's time to start using an ad blocker, I don't see any ads on that page with Firefox and uBlock Origin.
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mttchabout 2 hours ago
As much as I dislike the cold light of a LED bulb it’s so much better than the horrible era of compact fluorescent bulbs we just lived through.
mlrtimeabout 2 hours ago
Maybe but Incandescent is still the best visually for warmth and flickering which cause headaches. You have to go very far out of your way to buy an expensive non flickering LED light.

Waveform or Phillips Ultra.

aiNohY6gabout 12 hours ago
A specific case of "Evolutionary Mismatch, Stress, and Competition: Making Sense of Psychosocial Problems in the Polycrisis Era" https://www.mdpi.com/2076-328X/16/5/650 ?
excusableabout 22 hours ago
I'm thinking about Backrooms
sgtabout 20 hours ago
> Many LED systems use a dimming technique that rapidly switches the light on and off (sometimes hundreds of times per second). While this is invisible as flicker to the naked eye under normal conditions, eye movements can expose it

This is what I've always felt too, but if you talk to any lighting "expert", they'll say "no that's simply not the case with LED lighting since the year... 2009 or whatever ...". Highly suspect.

sudobash1about 18 hours ago
I find it easy to detect. If I wave my hand in front of my face quickly, the movement looks choppy instead of being just a blur. I can often tell lighting is cheep LED even without doing this. Movement just feels off. It is mildly annoying, but I can mostly ignore it.
TacticalCoderabout 16 hours ago
> This is what I've always felt too, but if you talk to any lighting "expert", they'll say "no that's simply not the case with LED lighting since the year... 2009 or whatever ...". Highly suspect.

Way before the Internet I had games running at 50 Hz (PAL). And we fully knew the difference between, say, a 2D game scrolling at full-frame rate and a game running a 25 fps: we could tell immediately. Same for intros and demos.

Yet the number of times I had armchair experts explain me, despite me literally seeing with my own eyes the difference, that "the human eye cannot discern more than 24 fps". Teachers. Friends of my parents. My parents.

Later on I could tell a CRT running Windows @ 60 Hz vs 75 Hz in a split second: I simply could tell.

And still: same armchair experts "you cannot detect that, your eyes cannot physically detect more than 24 fps, because science!".

It's the absolute worst thing: you see something with your own eyes, other people see it with their own eyes. And yet "experts" explain to you "that is impossible".

While you could fucking literally demo it to them: but they're not interested "becuz it's impossssssible".

I hate LED lighting. Or at least I hate having only LED lighting. But there's IMO a simple trick to make the lighting much warmer and reduce the flicker (even if you don't consciously detect it, like 60 fps vs 75 fps: it's simply there) and still keep electricity consumption in check: just have one incandescent light bulb per room. Maybe two in the living room.

This immediately gives the feeling of a much warmer place (and, technically speaking, it is actually... warmer, ah!).

You can still legally, even in the EU, buy "special purpose", incandescent lamps that give a very nice warm yellowish light.

Just don't forget to wait if you plan to touch one after turning it off because they really get very warm.

Now of course you do that and you'll have sore people say: "even one incandescent lamp is too much, you should be 100% LED, not 95% LED, to save the planet!" followed by "we should ask the EU (and others) to ban once and for all ALL incandescent lightbulbs".

Basically: go order on Amazon or whatever a few small "special purpose" incandescent light and some little lamp to put them in. Put one in each room.

You'll thank me later.

astrobe_about 4 hours ago
Well, I was one of those "armchair" specialists until I got a system why could sustain 60 FPS and I couldn't deny there was a difference between 30 FPS and 60 FPS, even though on the paper 25 FPS "should be enough for everyone".

(from TFA:) > During a rapid eye movement, the flickering light source can paint a streak of ghost images across the retina

So REM could explain it? Maybe it is somehow variable among people?

badlibrarianabout 17 hours ago
"The optic cortex is the biggest area of the brain by far. When everything is saturated in fluorescent light, as it is in small studios many times, the fluorescent light is going on and off at 60 times a second, or ideally at 120, but more roughly 60 and it’s shutting off your brain 60 times a second. The brain is kind of a fluid thing and everything is coupled with everything else, and when this happens – no matter where you take the EEG – if the subject is looking at fluorescent light, you see 60 cycles from the fluorescent light."

https://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/lectures/don-buchla-pass...

I suppose it's worth double checking if the 60 Hz was just leaking into the measurement rig. Or autism, for that matter. But Don was great and I've always loved this interview, so I'm sharing.

manmalabout 19 hours ago
The trend to put acoustic panels or an imitation of their pattern on _everything_ is one of my pet peeves. They create some stroboscobe effect with my (not normal) vision. The result is that they mess with my 3D perception and break my brain a bit for that reason. I’d rather not have them put anywhere.
kakacikabout 19 hours ago
They are a fad, like many before, and not the best one due to copy&paste uniformity. Since its used so aggressively and so often, many places look weirdly similar like if many people bought exactly same Ikea furniture. Proper wood like oak can be very pretty in many forms but this is not.

In future it will clearly mark the era of (re)construction.

andsoitisabout 21 hours ago
> Striped patterns, flickering lights, bright glare, and crowded visual environments

Those things are also just ugly.

geeewhyabout 4 hours ago
why i prefer invisible tools. screens are our environment right now. it feels like interior design of a casino these days. all the spinners and flowing streaming of text and media...
cobalt_minerabout 21 hours ago
Similarly, one my uni professors wrote a paper arguing that the opposite - standing in nature - results in healthy neural activity.

He showed people photos of geometric patterns (plain lines, basic shapes), natural patterns (fractals), and photos of nature itself (trees, animals, etc.) while reading their mental activity. The conclusion was that both fractals and nature photos cause significantly more efficient, diverse, and healthy-looking brain activity. Our brains inherently expect the world to look fractal-like, and in some ways even need it to look that way to form creative thoughts.

Completely lost the link to that article; it was a good read.

anthkabout 21 hours ago
Somehow we posted the same comment, I didn't even have a look on the whole HN comment list. Yes, indeed, we are used to look at leaves/branches/trees with self-similar structures (and mountains/rivers and lightnings).
Validarkabout 2 hours ago
FACT CHECKED VERIFIED
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theendisneyabout 18 hours ago
A guy i know put a fancy cracked wooden floor in his rather large flat, a sofa, a coffee table, a bed, a closet for his cloths and the rest of the space was filled with the largest possible plants. Like half the size of a car. Lots of grow lamps on a 10 hour timer while he was at work. Enough green that one cant help but deeply inhale it.
dinkblamabout 21 hours ago
flickering lights are not "modern decor" but a broken (and possibly dangerous) appliance
xandriusabout 16 hours ago
You're confusing what they mean: it's not the flickering that you can easily notice, it's the flickering of lights "fps".

To see those, you need a digital camera (e.g. your phone)

gumbyabout 21 hours ago
Today’s style is a callback to the 60s, and we’re people making the same complaints then?
seeknotfindabout 21 hours ago
We are?
fluxusarsabout 21 hours ago
The moiré effect of vertically striped wood walls gives me a headache.
ulnarkresstyabout 20 hours ago
The stripey wood-and-black-rubber 'sound dampening' panels are all the rage these days and I don't really understand it.

Our management had the bright idea to put these things in all our meeting rooms on the wall with the TVs we use for remote calls. People started getting sea sick looking at them. Of course removing them would mean the management made a mistake, so they will stay there until the next bright idea hits.

TacticalCoderabout 15 hours ago
I cannot thank you and GP (and others in this thread) enough for these comments. I thought they looked cool (although a bit of dust-catchers) and was planning to redo my bedroom with those.

I'm definitely going to do something else instead.

layer8about 19 hours ago
For those running into the ad-blocker blocker: https://archive.ph/LlAfO
thelittlenagabout 21 hours ago
I really hate lighting in modern offices. If there was one thing that folks actively worked to improve I would choose lighting. Having lights with a broader spectrum would go a long way in reducing eye strain and general fatigue, while likely allowing the lights to actually be brighter. Unfortunately I don't see this changing anytime soon.
Demiurgeabout 20 hours ago
I so agree! As someone into photography, light is everything. It can even turn oversaturated fabrics into more uniform and less screaming colors. The diffusion of the light flattens things, but the interesting angles create interesting shadows and shapes. So much can be done with light, but so many offices have the boring flat ceiling lights. It seems to be hard for the office space designers to invest a bit of time into islands that can have lamps. What's interesting is that many libraries seem to be more accomodating in this regard.

Either way, light is everything, but it is treated like an afterthought.

slopinthebagabout 21 hours ago
It's not just decor but architecture as well. Look I've been to Europe, I've seen the old architecture and decor there. It's unquestionably better. I get the feeling that modernity, at least in this day and age is about cost cutting and non-offensiveness more than anything else.
edelbitterabout 18 hours ago
The degree to which an environment is straining is possibly merely coincidentally related to the decor part.. and almost entirely rooted in architecture. Buildings with terrible architecture merely tend to simultaneously also be equipped with horrible color and texture choices.

I suspect besides objectively annoying flickering lights, the difference is primarily made in the immediate, subconscious and effortless recognition of ubiquitous patterns of function. Which happens in form and proportion first, and only to a lesser degree in color and contrast.

* this is the floor, this is the ceiling * through there, there is the entrance / exit * this is a reception desk

If it takes effort to filter out the noise, the glare to know such simple things, there is less capacity left in our brains to process other "essentially free" tasks.

pishpashabout 21 hours ago
For one it's not produced by artisans but by machines or processes.
akomtuabout 18 hours ago
Modern design, especially the modern architecture, is meant to simplify people's thinking, make it bland and uniform. Look at the gray cubism around you: does it inspire any creativity? Same for interior design, cars and even the so called modern art.
gib444about 5 hours ago
> People who are neurodivergent, a broad term covering autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and related conditions, are disproportionately affected

I don't think this is at all a coincidence when it comes to office planning and design. It is purposefully exclusionary

Modern offices are just social/business experiments about what a human will put up with to earn a wage and to optimise for the most desired employees. Most offices I've worked at have a majority of these issues:

- Horrible decor mentioned in the article

- Insufficient peak-time toilet capacity

- Zero accounting for the sun's rays (screen glare, solar gain)

- Poor acoustics

- Horrible overhead lighting

- Broken AC in heat waves, lack of natural air cooling in winter (yay, dried sinuses and gloves in winter!)

- Meeting rooms with insufficient fresh air

- Zero design to reduce spreading of viral diseases

- Constant visual distractions

t0loabout 5 hours ago
Starting to think I'm the normal one and everyone else is crazy...
moi2388about 4 hours ago
> “ It is purposefully exclusionary”

No, neurodivergent and autistic people are just generally affected or annoyed by pretty much anything.

There is no conspiracy here.

jdw64about 21 hours ago
But isn't that actually what modernism is about? I heard about Ornament and Crime in a university liberal arts class, and there really is this kind of problem. When you try to imitate natural forms, fractal structures are fundamentally difficult to mass produce, there are hygiene issues, and so the modernist approach became dominant. And as the saying goes, "form follows function", you cannot apply the artificial technologies that do not exist in nature the same way you would with old stone buildings.

In the same vein, contemporary art, like a Veronica, smashes form apart, and instead of concrete imitation of nature, it moves toward abstraction, geometry, and minimalism. But does not that come with a problem? It does not enter the brain directly the way natural forms do; you have to additionally recognize what it actually is. I do not think that is an incorrect observation.

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SP711about 22 hours ago
I don’t buy this. Feels like a non-problem or a very first world problem to even analyse and with the exception of lights, nothing else seemed plausible
bawolffabout 21 hours ago
Really, you don't find it plausible that environment could affect mood?

I dont know if the hypothesis in the paper is correct, but it seems clear that environment can affect mood in some cases. There is a reason why night clubs and libraries are decorated differently. From there it seems very plausible other elements of environments could have an affect (perhaps subtle) on mood.

witxabout 21 hours ago
So you thibk light might affect, but something visual.. that we see does not?
dwbabout 19 hours ago
Why do you think that? What knowledge/leaning do you have that would add weight to your opinion?
rrjjwwabout 22 hours ago
Off topic but I really hate modern web design. I found the content of this article interesting but I could hardly read it scrolling through in-article ads, banners, etc. One of the reasons I like HN is the prevalence of personal blogs that just have text for me to sit and read.
blooalienabout 22 hours ago
> ... could hardly read it scrolling through in-article ads, banners, etc.

Which is why you can take my adblocker from me when you pry it from my cold dead hands. Much of the modern web is largely straight-up hostile without a proper adblocker these days.

SoftTalkerabout 22 hours ago
I use reader mode on most sites where it is possible. It makes a big difference in most cases. Readable font size and face, good contrast, and comfortable margins. I don't know why so many sites ignore good practices on this stuff.
blooalienabout 21 hours ago
> I use reader mode on most sites where it is possible. ...

That's my go-to solution on mobile devices almost every single time because on small screens even a good adblocker simply isn't nearly enough to overcome the other issues you mention in your comment here.

danielrmayabout 22 hours ago
A clean reading experience appears to be a unique selling point these days
Diogenesianabout 22 hours ago
If it's any consolation this article was written by an LLM, so reading it is a waste of time regardless. HN should just autoblock this entire scumbag domain.

The paper itself is open access: https://www.mdpi.com/2411-5150/10/2/34

andixabout 21 hours ago
I really hate shops, malls and supermarkets. I'm not easily overwhelmed and can handle being there fine. But it's just horrible there. Way too loud, bright and often too warm. Completely full of chaos and way too many useless products.

When I have to go I try to be out there as quickly as possible. I always thought that's weird, shouldn't those shops be designed in a way that makes me want to explore them, look at all the things they have, instead of just hunting down exactly what I need and leave as quickly as possible.

bear141about 21 hours ago
They make it hard to find what you want on purpose in hopes you will be distracted and buy other crap along the way. I think it must work on most consumers.

I have the same reaction to it as you.

andixabout 20 hours ago
I get that they make it hard to find, so we also buy different stuff. But if I can't find what I'm looking for too often, I won't come back anymore.

Sometimes I really want/need something, and I have all the stores close by. But I still decide to buy it online, and accept waiting a few days, because stores/malls are such a bad experience.

tancopabout 18 hours ago
i think theres something in peoples mindset or genetics that creates this difference. my experience is like the opposite of yours. i dont exactly love malls but its one of the things that can satisfy the part of my brain that just wants more.

never been diagnosed with adhd but i have this thing where most of life is not stimulating enough to keep me interested. to be clear this is not a screen addiction, i dont feel specific pressure to pull up my phone and i can go a long time without it. scrolling is only a fallback when im not talking with someone (that includes writing like right now), working on something interesting, outside with friends, playing games, working out, you get the idea.

creative things like coding and drawing almost always work. movies and football only if i care about it emotionally. alcohol helps some too. but a lot of activities like reading a book are just not enough. i would describe it as a non specific addiction to something that might be dopamine but that still wouldnt fully explain things.

when i go to the mall or the shopping street or a bar theres so much going on that i finally feel comfortable. on the other hand i almost never feel overwhelmed. my family is not like that (they absolutely hate shopping) but i think some of my friends are, never asked them about it. i dont know if its a type of neurodivergence or a learned behavior or something even stranger.

sounds like a great lead for psychology research.

ButlerianJihadabout 21 hours ago
Whenever I go shopping for a single, most trivial item, I really need to psyche myself up. Those critical moments just upon entering the store are the key.

Because immediately upon walking in the door, you are immersed in a "shopping environment". Everything you smell, hear, see, touch is geared to making you spend more and purchase more and grab more useless stuff off the shelves.

Even in a Goodwill or similar thrift store you are subjected to these merchandising tricks.

I have found that keeping a very good household inventory on a spreadsheet is critical. If I have this spreadsheet on my phone and I refer to it, before venturing into aisles, then I know exactly what I need to purchase, and where to go to find it. Sticking to the shopping list, I can avoid the needless purchase temptations.

At Costco when I'd go with my parents, it was the custom of the cashiers to ask, "did you find everything alright?" and my father would always joke, that if enough people answered in the affirmative, that was their cue to rearrange the store and shuffle everything around, so that shoppers would get lost, and not being able to find what they want, would discover more useless stuff that they would pull off the shelves on impulse.

It also doesn't hurt to follow the advice of "never shop while hungry"!

andixabout 20 hours ago
Supermarkets are maybe a bit different, they are hard to avoid.

But I dislike malls so much, that I only get new clothes for example once it's really necessary. If it was more pleasant to shop there, I would probably buy more stuff.

I guess there are some people who fit into that environment, their tactics work well on them, and the shops/malls just ignore customers like me.

ButlerianJihadabout 20 hours ago
Supermarkets are abundant near me, and vary wildly in their experiences.

I could shop at a Wal-Mart or a Target for groceries, and thus be subject to all the same big-box shopping pitfalls.

I could shop at a farmers market style grocery store, and the major one near me has some great products and great foods, but mixed in with 90% ultra-processed foods, sugar bombs, and all sorts of unhealthy stuff, masquerading as organic or natural food. Also this "farmers market" has an extensive section with wine and beer, and personal health/hygiene products that are quite expensive.

At Trader Joe's I usually have no problem shopping for exactly what I need, and again, sticking to my spreadsheet with inventory and shopping needs. I usually pick up some fresh flowers here, because they're a bargain, and the coolest thing about Trader Joe's is that I can trust basically any product they've put on their shelves, and the limited selection, and restriction to food products only, helps narrow my shopping focus.

It is even possible to shop for groceries at the dollar stores nearby, which stock a lot of frozen foods, snack foods, beverages, etc. These bargain prices are generally justified by a lower bar of quality, or rapid expiration dates.

Another "grocery shopping" option is pharmacies or convenience stores. There is a major chain pharmacy nearby that really has a lot of good groceries, and is starting to stock some organic and natural brands as well. Its aisles are impeccable and the shopping experience is first-rate. Of course, as soon as I step in the door, the scent and sounds and feels assault me and begin to work on my consumer brain. Got to adhere firmly to that spreadsheet in my pocket!

paulpauperabout 19 hours ago
Just go to Costco: they only stock 4,500 items compared to Walmart's 100,000 per store
andixabout 19 hours ago
Next Costco is approximately 7.000km away and would require some serious swimming skills.
daytonixabout 20 hours ago
Oh really?? The disgusting childlike interiors the millennials put everywhere might actually be nauseating and headache-inducing? Who could have predicted that? (anyone with eyes)
Animatsabout 18 hours ago
The flicker of some auto lighting systems is annoying. The switching frequency is so low that strobing is a real issue on the red and yellow lamps. Flicker in light bulb sized white LED lamps isn't so bad, because the LEDs drive phosphors with slow response times. Come on, auto people, get those switching frequencies up to a kilohertz or so.
jes5199about 22 hours ago
this is the same thing we said about offices in the fluorescent era
Demiurgeabout 20 hours ago
has it gotten better in the LED era?
FinnLobsienabout 22 hours ago
I‘ve definitely noticed this over time as spaces (especially public ones like cafes, retail locations, and restaurants) started being designed as props for Instagram/TikTok.

This made a big contribution because vertical short-form video feeds require extreme stimuli to get anyone’s attention - but they add nothing to the actual experience and often detract from it.

This has also led to the absolutely horrific acoustics where even in non-nightclub bars and normal restaurants, you have to yell to understand each other because the decor is made of tile, tables and chairs are at odd angles that increase distance, etc.

Everything now is subordinate to the visual environment because that’s what gets shared on Instagram.

Not saying interior design doesn’t matter, but its point should be to create a great overall experience, not to be visually stimulating at the expense of the rest.

psunavy03about 18 hours ago
So many people in this thread not understanding what a luxury and a privilege "staying put" for decades is in this era of layoffs.
anthkabout 21 hours ago
The human brain it's used to the fractal details in neatures, such as branches/leaves.

Geometrical design (especially the ones with grids/vectors everywhere) are not minimalistic but tiring, really tiring.

pixel_poppingabout 22 hours ago
In case you own the website:

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You don't have permission to access this resource. From Singapore.

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shwajabout 19 hours ago
“Striped office floors. Flickering lights. Walls covered in repetitive geometric patterns.”

Not sentences. AI slop.

ck2about 21 hours ago
just crazy-glue some cheap tacky Home Depot gold decor on every surface and you'll be fine, maybe even become leader of free world
hnthrow10282910about 21 hours ago
First pic in article looks like fucking backrooms
Doktor_IOabout 22 hours ago
Who needs science for that?