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47% Positive

Analyzed from 20741 words in the discussion.

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#twitter#don#more#nitter#reddit#post#account#still#https#content

Discussion (921 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

afavour•about 17 hours ago
A real shame. Even if you put all the political arguments aside it sucks when a site requires you to log in before you can read content on it.

For me that’ll mean I just don’t read content on there any more. Which I realise X doesn’t care about, I’m not monetisable anyway. But a shame nonetheless.

ehnto•about 10 hours ago
Both Imgur and Reddit have put a lot of roadblocks up lately as well. I think some of it is driven by trying to reduce bot traffic.

It's quite inconsistent though which is really frustrating. I can look at the imgur homepage feed, but if I go into a specific post and accidentally click anywhere it throws a modal up that can't be dismissed.

If I go on a specific subreddit or post I can freely look, but reddit homepage now pops a modal you can't dismiss.

This is on mobile browsers, of course both sites are pushing their apps.

I am sure it doesn't align with their incentives so they don't care, I will never have an account and never install the app, but why block me from viewing the site if I am still seeing the ads? Does the free ad model just not pay anymore, or is the selling user data model just that much more lucrative that they would rather no user at all if they aren't logged in?

jaapz•about 8 hours ago
> It's quite inconsistent though which is really frustrating. I can look at the imgur homepage feed, but if I go into a specific post and accidentally click anywhere it throws a modal up that can't be dismissed.

That's not inconsistent, that's a deliberate dark pattern that every social media site uses. Let them see the first page, then when they want to engage: force creating an account.

When you just put a "log in to see this page" up front, people will bounce. When you have them engaged a little bit, chances are they are already invested enough to create an account.

swat535•8 minutes ago
> every social media site uses

It's not only social media anymore, many mainstream websites have started doing it.

For example on IMDB, you used to be able to read the comments, now they locked them behind a signup box.. it's only a matter of time until they lock the whole site down.

I wish we had the old internet, with simple html forms, texts and pictures.

The peek was really Web 2.0 design, it introduced just enough styles and interactivity to get rid of TABLES but no more than that.

tjoff•about 1 hour ago
Exactly, and it also proves that it is not about limiting bot access.
bgro•about 2 hours ago
Bots are the noisy excuse they can scream and point to. You look at the mobile reddit app or the new reddit interface and you think these javascript “devs” are capable of forming any valid opinion on these things?

This is the company that refers to its users as “daily active shitheads.” That’s a real quote.

They’re just screaming and pointing to anything they can so they can lock it down and gain more favorable data to sell and more legitimate accounts to show advertisers. That’s what it always is.

I’m never wrong and I’m tired of fake imposters devs telling me I am wrong at every corner of every single topic when I turn out to be right 100% of the time.

asimovDev•about 8 hours ago
I remember using old.reddit to bypass login requirements and quite often it would let me read with VPN on (otherwise it kicks you out if you are not logged in with VPN on). Only recently did they introduce the same authentication blocks to the old.reddit, so I am assuming everyone was taking advantage of it
protoster•about 3 hours ago
FYI web extension "Old Reddit Redirect" was just updated. Restores anonymous access and old reddit. I looked under the hood and it's just setting a "redesign_optout" cookie, so I'd say our days are numbered regardless.
swozey•about 5 hours ago
You have to log in to use old and new reddit now. The only way I can view reddit is through the mobile app without logging in.

They already AI shadowbanned me and nuke all of my accounts for participating in historical discussions that mentioned violent upheaval of power, thats why I can't login. I appreciate them helping me ween off using the site completely.

Thank you reddit, never thought I'd quit you. And I'm missing nothing but the exact same conversations over and over again.

socalgal2•about 10 hours ago
Imgur is 80% posts of text for people trying to post political messages vs what it used to be, interesting or funny pictures

I guess that's their traffic so that's their market but ugh. Imagine if flickr or some other photo site was run over by people posting photos of text messags.

eterm•about 9 hours ago
I discovered recently that a big part of this is that sites weight photos of text higher than text.

I learned that the LinkedIn meta of photos of posts is because their algorithm de-ranks anything with a link, so for farming you should post a picture of text then follow up with a link to a blog post a day later as a comment reply to the post to double-dip the activity.

And, eurgh, so many bad incentives to just make everything worse.

If you earnestly just post a link to a blog, it weights you don't because they don't want people leaving their feed.

And actual text people spend less time hovering than photos of text, so again, down the ranking your post goes.

I don't spend much time on other social media but if Imgur is all just photos of text that won't be an accident, but it'll be what sites optimise for.

account42•about 7 hours ago
What imgur used to be was just an image host for reddit. Then they tried to make it into a separate community thing and reddit added their own image/video hosting.
dageshi•about 7 hours ago
> Does the free ad model just not pay anymore, or is the selling user data model just that much more lucrative that they would rather no user at all if they aren't logged in?

Traffic from google is probably in the process of collapsing, so these sites are trying to capture all the users they can as registered users before it's gone completely.

And yes, the free ad model is probably in the process of dying, the information that was once given away for free in return for looking at ads is now more valuable sold to llm's who will have the eyeballs going forward.

This will presumably make many on this site happy, since for many years an ad supported open web was consistently railed against.

aucisson_masque•about 5 hours ago
> the information that was once given away for free in return for looking at ads is now more valuable sold to llm's who will have the eyeballs going forward.

I don't believe it.

Am4TIfIsER0ppos•about 7 hours ago
> these sites are trying to capture all the users they can as registered users before it's gone completely

With the shuttering of nitter if this is what twitter wants then the least they could do is let you create an account. You need apple or google for that. It seems like they shut the front door some time ago and now drew the curtains so people couldn't peer in.

They managed to make it enticing enough for me just to see one person's posts to enter my email but said "fuck off and get the app". I'll have to make do with the 5 posts they show without login

elric•about 9 hours ago
I recently deleted all of my Reddit accounts. The website had been unusable on mobile for a good while, with the constant and ever-more-aggressive nagging about switching to the app. Old Reddit was the one thing that made the site still usable. And now that requires a login.

So fuck that. Bye Reddit. I'll miss some of the communities.

PowerElectronix•about 8 hours ago
Same, the few communities that are worthwhile I still lurk through photon-reddit. It's a pity how the site went down, I only hope their stock value goes down in the same way.
account42•about 7 hours ago
It's been real annoying to no longer be able to visit reddit posts for search results as it has been the de-facto public forum where recommendations and solutions to issues get posted for a while now. Never going to login there again though and I think I will follow your example and have them delete my account.
misstuned•about 9 hours ago
Imgur has been totally unusable in the UK for a couple of years - it's an irritant, because it's used for so many image embeds and I'm reluctant to fire up the VPN just so I can see someone's meme that they posted on a forum thread. Nobody has ever used Imgur as a destination site, it's a utility, and any attempts to make it a destination or an app you'd deliberately open are futile.

Reddit isn't so badly impacted, but there are still age-walls around some of the content where it's been deemed "adult" (which encompasses more than just graphic adult imagery).

esskay•about 5 hours ago
There's a chrome plugin called 'MirrorImage'[1] that basically rewrites all imgur links/embeds to use a proxy service, it seems to work pretty well to get around it.

I dare say something similar also exists for Firefox

[1] https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/mirrorimage/mglldpk...

dyauspitr•about 10 hours ago
Hide distracting items is great on the iPhone to delete elements on the page intuitively and it remembers what you hid.
Arubis•about 17 hours ago
Indeed. I’d only reengaged with any Xitter content when I realized I could get it through xcancel. Without a door like this, it’s invisible to me.
snottynose•about 7 hours ago
> I just don’t read content on there any more

This is the sensible response. I'm always bemused by the reactions that go: "this is a garbage site but I am forced to use it every day". Be grateful that your social media addiction is now automatically mitigated! Go outside!

inigyou•about 12 hours ago
You don't have to comply with a cease and desist notice, depending on your risk tolerance. They're not legally binding, like court orders. Rather, they are threats, equivalent to "gimme your lunch money or I'll beat you up"
account42•about 7 hours ago
Yes and hiQ v. LinkedIn has already given us precedent that scraping is not inherently illegal, not to mention X's own scraping to train their AI.

Makes sense that they want to consult legal experts rather than just going with their gut though but I hope those legal experts will work something out that gets them back online.

Gud•about 11 hours ago
It depends on how deep your pockets are, not risk tolerance.

And the manbaby in charge will absolutely go after you.

inigyou•about 4 hours ago
That's risk tolerance. You can even choose not to have a lawyer (but you shouldn't) and then it costs you very little until you lose.
gnuplustoejam•about 17 hours ago
Nice to see everyone taking a break from their day jobs at Google of continually breaking yt-dlp so it's impossible to use, to comment how this is an injustice.

To the aggrieved I say: 403 Forbidden.

In their defense, you're not getting the full YouTube experience without ads of an AI doctor selling you suppositories.

miloignis•about 16 hours ago
There's a bit difference between breaking a scraper and sending Cease and Desist letters.

Also, blocking scraping is very rich (and expectedly hypocritical) for an AI company, which SpaceX is now.

notpushkin•about 7 hours ago
Google has sent a cease and desist letter to youtube-dl. It didn’t work out well.

And of course, Google is an AI company, too.

avaer•about 11 hours ago
Most people on HN don't work at Google. And most would probably agree that both Google and Twitter are being user-hostile.
afavour•about 17 hours ago
This might be the first HN thread I’ve seen where the statement “regiwalled content is bad” is somehow attracting a lot of negative reactions…
Catloafdev•about 16 hours ago
I don't get it, are you implying everyone who's not a fan of this change is a Google employee?
ryandrake•about 16 hours ago
Maybe he's saying everyone who works at Google works on breaking yt-dlp...?
pbhjpbhj•about 8 hours ago
Pretty sure it was a satirical joke.
ppljudge•about 13 hours ago
This. It bugs me that we can’t read without logging in, and other UX decisions that basically made me quit using it for like 7 or 8 months now.
koiueo•about 11 hours ago
You should've removed your account too.

You won't miss much.

rbanffy•about 9 hours ago
We all hope the current age of enshitification will eventually end.
pbhjpbhj•about 8 hours ago
It interesting because it suggests Musk doesn't need Twitter to swing anymore elections... He didn't buy it [solely] to make money from it.
Waterluvian•about 17 hours ago
Reddit is the worst for this. I hate the disgusting, low class UX design where they let you read about 10-15 seconds of a page before locking you out.

Though I think Pinterest takes the cake for being just the ugliest example of this.

mlmonkey•about 13 hours ago
Reddit seems to have let this AI demand go to their heads.

I had multiple Reddit accounts, simply because I did not want my more "professional" account linked to the other accounts (some for more controversial opinions, some for more adult talk, etc.) Apparently that's a problem for them. So they banned most of my accounts. If I really was up to no good, I'd have used VPNs, etc. to hide my activities. But I just wanted to segregate my personas. e.g. I like discussing local SF and California politics, and often times take controversial positions. I don't want my activities as a respectable(?) member of the Linux Kernel group to be colored through my activities in these other groups. But now I can't do that.

Oh, and back in the day Reddit (when it wanted to pad its user numbers) didn't care for an email address or a phone number. Now, 15 years later, it suddenly wants to confirm the email address!

And don't even get me started on the moderation at Reddit. Typical example: "Hey! We deleted your comment. If you have any questions about it, email the mods." except ... they deleted the comment and now I don't even know what was wrong with it! :-D

jmalicki•about 12 hours ago
Interesting, because multiple accounts for the same person is explicitly allowed by Reddit:

https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/204535759-I...

inigyou•about 12 hours ago
You're lucky you only got email address. I got selfie+ID. No thank you.
chrysoprace•about 17 hours ago
Old Reddit is now completely unusable without an account. Maybe it's time for me to finally stop using it.
beart•about 14 hours ago
New Reddit is too. They were A/B testing it for a while, but now you can't use it without the login pop-up after a short timespan. The funny thing is, it has nothing to do with how much content you view. So if you really want to read something, you can hit F5 and scroll back down every time the pop-up is shown. Still not worth it. But honestly, Reddit content has taken such a plummeting nose dive over the last few years, this just feels like a final reminder that it's time to move on.
hedora•about 16 hours ago
Do database dumps of it still exist?

Maybe it’s time to just download it and Wikipedia, then point an LLM / vectordb at it.

pcrh•about 5 hours ago
The changes to old.reddit mean I've started using redlib.catsarch for simple browsing.
ryandrake•about 16 hours ago
Interesting--I'm still using old.reddit.com with no problem, without an account. Maybe the change is not broadly rolled out?
throwaway85825•about 16 hours ago
Old reddit on the tor onion domain still works for me.
mrtesthah•about 15 hours ago
Use a LibReddit/Redlib/Teddit/etc. instance.
account42•about 7 hours ago
It was time for that a long time ago lol.
rplnt•about 8 hours ago
(as a logged-in user) I just stopped using it the day they banned 3rd party apps and I don't miss it a bit. I visit some communities still, but only on PC with old reddit. Once that is gone, I'm gone as well.
MYEUHD•about 10 hours ago
> Reddit is the worst for this. I hate the disgusting, low class UX design where they let you read about 10-15 seconds of a page before locking you out.

When this happens I use uBlock origin to remove that popup and the grey background behind it. Scrolling and loading more comments remains usable (unlike Facebook)

alex1138•about 17 hours ago
spez is a problem. And if it's not spez, then enlighten me. But they've taken years of built up network effects and absolutely wrecked it. It's so hostile when companies do this. They just ignore their users, straight up. That should be a firable offense. The customer is NOT 'always right', but you can meet them halfway

Fail upwards. That's all they know how to do

afavour•about 17 hours ago
> They just ignore their users, straight up.

Existing Reddit users aren’t affected by this regi wall UX because they’re already logged in. And as much as I hate the UX too… Reddit user numbers have grown a ton in the last few years. It’s difficult to make the argument that these changes are a failure.

AlexandrB•about 16 hours ago
> The customer is NOT 'always right', but you can meet them halfway

Reddit users are not customers. The advertisers and AI labs are the customers because they're the ones paying. The users are the cattle in the pen being sold to the advertisers and the monkeys at the typewriters whose output gets sold as AI training data.

koe123•about 11 hours ago
I hope the EU makes it illegal
holgerschurig•about 8 hours ago
Unlikely.

The EU is first and foremost a business club. So the majority of EU rules are there to create a common market. If one participant is trying to be dodgy, then oftentimes a rule valid for all market participants is created, to re-establish the common market.

Sometimes it's even the producers that ask the EU to regulate it. E.g. all of those classes for vegetables originated from the producers. As a result, an egg of size "M" from Netherlands has the same size as an egg of the size "M" from France. And both can be sold in e.g. Belgium, since we now have a common market and common attributes. A customer seeing an "M" sized egg in the shelves doesn't need to ponder, he knows what he gets.

If some website needs a login so that you can view contents is completely outside of this. That is actually common, many newspapers and magazines do that. Its entirely to their discretion if they allow free public access, limited access, or paid access. One doesn't need to be Google Search, one can also be Kagi, so to say.

PowerElectronix•about 8 hours ago
"And the monkey's paw curled a finger"
jorisw•about 9 hours ago
Yes, more regulations from the EU is what the internet needs /s
jack_pp•about 7 hours ago
Not only requires you to log in, asks you your username once you do log in, which means for me I can't log in because I had a random username and there is no email from them where it is mentioned
kopirgan•about 8 hours ago
Actually between us and X is not logged in but Xcancel itself I believe logs in. So it's not a login issue..
BLKNSLVR•about 14 hours ago
It goes against the whole “global town square" declaration.

Only if you're part of the club. If not, fuck off!

I choose to fuck off.

Melatonic•about 14 hours ago
Want to come to the free town square ? Gotta show ID first to the guard at the wall
ShinyLeftPad•about 11 hours ago
(the guard will also sell you a loudspeaker and an "official" badge for a modest fee)
make3•about 13 hours ago
& the town square forces you to listen to famous gossippers and dumb popular people you've never heard of
apparent•about 15 hours ago
It's possible that the lack of these alternatives will decrease engagement enough that Twitter would loosen these rules. Perhaps not that likely, but it's possible.
PowerElectronix•about 8 hours ago
I'd say that's practically a given. Everyone that wants to have an account already has one, everyone else will not make an account just because they are bothered into making one.

Nitter and xcancel traffic must be negligible, they're doing this just to pretend they're doing stuff to justify their legal department wages.

account42•about 7 hours ago
Would be funny if this backfires and results in consequences/restrictions for their own (AI) scraping.
GoblinSlayer•about 8 hours ago
It's builtin adblocker, hehe, internet was full of shit for a while anyway. Books are the new internet.
snottynose•about 7 hours ago
Hear, hear.
UltraSane•about 17 hours ago
Sites that force you to login to actually use it feel very arrogant.
nomel•about 15 hours ago
> when a site requires you to log in before you can read content on it.

Where does this come from? You can see the last few posts of an account [1], and the contents of a single posts, but minimal to no comments [2]. Videos play after dismissing the login popup.

I have no X account, but I read content there all the time without issue.

[1] https://x.com/ID_AA_Carmack

[2] https://x.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/2091983940609245467

ryantgtg•about 15 hours ago
I received an Amber Alert a few days ago, which linked to a Twitter post containing the details, and the "x" in the "plz login" modal that blocked the entire screen was non-functional. I just sat there pounding on the x, and then a little hand gif popped up and pointed at the login button.
Melatonic•about 14 hours ago
It always confuses me because the X you need to click is in the upper right and very small.

Not the giant X in the middle.

Horrible UI choices.....

nomel•about 9 hours ago
Do you have a screenshot of what you see when you click the above link? I've never had a twitter link go directly to a login screen. A twitter link within a twitter link does, though, unless you copy paste it into the address bar.

I don't understand why I'm being downvoted. Am I seeing something different than everyone else? I just tried with private browser, multiple browsers, multiple devices, and they're all the same: I click any twitter post link I can find, and I see the post, no login screen. I'm not using adblock or and javascript is turned on.

kalleboo•about 15 hours ago
> https://x.com/ID_AA_Carmack

Only 5 posts, and when you click on any of them, you don't see the post, you see a sign up popup

aarond0623•about 14 hours ago
Unless it has changed, the posts are in random order; they aren't the latest, which makes the ones you see basically worthless.
wasabi991011•about 14 hours ago
I don't know how it works, but it is very inconsistent.

On mobile right now, I can't scroll past the second post of [1] without getting blocked by an undismissable popup.

If I click on the "read more" button of the first post, I can't scroll down at all before getting that same non-dismissable popup. It makes it hard to read the post itself, because even scrolling a tiny bit (e.g. to get what I'm reading closer to the center of my vision) triggers it.

I've also had other times where I couldn't play a video someone linked to me, but sometimes I can, don't know why.

gruez•about 15 hours ago
A few months ago you needed to log in to view any replies, which was critical for some threads.
mock-possum•about 15 hours ago
Not sure how you manage that - twitter, insta, and pinterest all begrudgingly let you see one, maybe two things, then lock down and prevent you from interacting without logging in.

It really gives the sense that you’re not wanted there.

And so I gladly oblige.

userbinator•about 11 hours ago
This is a surprising change. It works even without JS, although as others have mentioned, without all the content.

6 years ago, pre-Musk, they started forcing the JS-only webapp and everyone absolutely hated it: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/technology/twitter-war...

I wonder if there's a group of developers at X, especially with Musk's cost-saving direction, who are slowly bringing back the static pages.

andsoitis•about 15 hours ago
> a site requires you to log in before you can read content on it.

That's not true for X. You can read content without being signed in.

https://help.x.com/en/safety-and-security/public-and-protect...

wasabi991011•about 14 hours ago
Only if it's directly linked to you. Can't go scrolling on someone's profile without getting blocked by a pop-up. Also can't click a post and see replies.

Edit: also can't read a thread because each new post is considered a "reply", so blocked too.

BLKNSLVR•about 14 hours ago
Not in any useful way that makes Twitter better or different than other sources of news.
andsoitis•about 14 hours ago
I can't think of another platform that carries a more diverse range of news and perspectives.

But that's beside the point. I was pointing out that X does allow non-logged in users view posts.

negura•about 17 hours ago
Middle powers should heed Cory Doctorow's advice [0] and start offering legal protection in their jurisdictions for precisely this type of projects.

America is a hostile nation, who has sought to align everyone with its interests, under a false pretense of mutual benefit, while instead its tech sector has caused much harm at a global scale. America is now doubling down on value extraction, at an obvious expense to everyone else.

Middle powers should not be granting to America any goodwill whatsoever. There is nothing in it for them anymore, except irresponsible reliance on a bad faith actor.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46509019

rootsu•about 9 hours ago
>America is a hostile nation, who has sought to align everyone with its interests, under a false pretense of mutual benefit, while instead its tech sector has caused much harm at a global scale. America is now doubling down on value extraction, at an obvious expense to everyone else.

In India, recently, a bill was passed that can permit banks and the government to add charges on UPI transactions. UPI is one of the biggest digital payment systems in the world, and it was free until now. Insider information from multiple news sources suggests that this was done because of pressure from the US.

mrngld•about 5 hours ago
Sounds bogus, there's free payment services in the US as well, that's nothing special. What makes more sense in the India context is low value of volume per customer where even the minimal operating costs are difficult to cover. I say that from some amount of experience in the micro-finance world, where even money provided at zero actual interest in terms of the loaned money itself still ended up having to have somewhat painful interest rates just to cover true costs in low income countries.
zanellato19•about 17 hours ago
Brazil is trying that and getting a bad look from the USA. Can you imagine a smaller nation doing the same? What would the USA do?
wpm•about 11 hours ago
Exactly, what are we going to do? Impose sanctions? Tarriffs? We do that anyways without recourse. Bomb you? We might do that anyways without reasonable impetus. Y'all have no reason to temper your actions for fear of retribution; our President is threatening to rename a lake to Lake America because we "won't be doing business with Ontario anymore". Why? Does it matter? Could anyone have done anything that wasn't just abject groveling? No.

To hell with us. The rest of the world needs to move on from giving a crap what our government thinks of you.

Gigachad•about 16 hours ago
The US is fighting wars with everyone on everything at the same time. They don't have the resources to do anything about it. Every country will develop their own independent payment networks.

China was right to block US tech companies to promote their own, most large and capable countries will do the same over time.

insane_dreamer•about 16 hours ago
I wouldn't cite China as the example. If they had their way, every country would have its own firewall just like them, giving them significant control over information flow to their citizens. It works very well. That's why they have been pushing "internet sovereignty" for years.
mrtesthah•about 16 hours ago
Doctorow's point is that the USA's trade policy is unilaterally capricious and malevolent toward the best of its allies, so other nations' actions ultimately cannot be said to have any mitigating causal effect. Might as well just go for it. F the DMCA.
account42•about 6 hours ago
Unfortunately, DMCA isn't just in the USA's interest and the copyright situation is actually worse in some other countries, notably Germany which, which means I wouldn't have too much hope on the EU moving in the right direction on that front.
preisschild•about 9 hours ago
Brazil is close with Russia, and Russia does a lot more harm to the world than the US even under Trump.
pbhjpbhj•about 7 hours ago
What would be your principal point to persuade someone Putin is worse than Trump?

Invading a country, pretending it's not a war of aggression, letting your own soldiers die, and killing many innocent people with no authority from your democratic houses... USA would not do that!!! /s

Trump stood to avoid prison, he's used the stock markets to steal from his own people. It looks like the wars against Venezuela, and against Iran were/are solely to enrich himself. Honestly, Putin looks more moral here (a phrase I thought I'd never even contemplate) unless he was also in a club of prolific paedophiles?

I guess Putin has perverted a super power into an oligarchic dictatorship...

knowaveragejoe•about 11 hours ago
If even a few of the people freaking out here just recreated or rehosted nitter elsewhere out of their reach, we probably wouldn't have this problem. Be the change you wish to see
jambalaya8•about 17 hours ago
All due respect, but how would anyone survive, no less find a way to make anything like the average income of any of us on HN, in a world that made not just some 'patents' free but removed property and invention such as the extremities Doctorow's fiction often espouses? America is sorta known for pretense of mutual benefit. We sorta fumbled things after we, to put it bluntly, nuked the Japanese twice. Don't get me wrong, if you read my comments elsewhere you will see how I feel about people/companies claiming swathes of things for themselves too.

Everyone seems to think they either deserve more or they fall for believing people are inherently willing to remunerate fairly for what they use... Def. not my experience, at all... like what if people were all just assuming since your ideas exist, they were for sale or free, or 'offering' things you dont want or arent getting in return...? what if you dont want what they do with it in the first place? what if (heh) you just don't like the end user and you know they will irk you with it?

Doctorow is the furthest from a fair or good example, imho.

negura•about 16 hours ago
> find a way to make anything like the average income of any of us on HN

a) This is not about trying to protect the incomes of people working in Big Tech

b) In his talk Doctorow gives examples of business opportunities that are actually being repressed by the laws against reverse engineering

mrngld•about 5 hours ago
It's not just about big tech. It's about what enables highly productive societies in general. Without IP, I suppose everyone could share to some limited extent what is already known, but why would anyone ever sink big dollars or time into coming up with something new that'd immediately get stolen by people who did nothing to contribute to it? Indeed, it's part of the problem with manufacturing in the West, there's no robust enforcement of IP with China due to political sensitivities so manufacturers have to have strategies to protect themselves from the fact that if they release a new product they've got maybe 90 days before a copycat hits the market.

I can't help but wonder how much stronger the core of the EU economy would be with actual robust management of their trade relationship with China. The US too but I think the EU is suffering a bit more in real time.

No doubt it makes Doctorow the star of certain types of intellectual circles but the theories have never made a people or country actually well off and never will. But, things don't have to work in the real world to be popular, or even to become policy.

armchairhacker•about 8 hours ago
Maybe in the past, but who in the present who isn’t already rich is or would have the income hurt by eliminating IP laws? Keep in mind that most indie projects make barely any money, most of those that do are free + ads or Patreon, any software not under expensive DRM is easy to pirate, and AI companies pirate to train LLMs.

> what if you dont want what they do with it in the first place? what if (heh) you just don't like the end user and you know they will irk you with it?

What if you don’t like what somebody does with “your” ideas in their own personal bubble? Why care? Try to ignore them. I’d rather that than have somebody restrict what I can do with whatever ideas they claim are theirs.

specialist•about 15 hours ago
For a very brief window of time, USA did a little bit more good than bad.

Those of us wanting to believe USA was more better than not have struggled to recalibate our beliefs.

wredcoll•about 17 hours ago
> We sorta fumbled things after we, to put it bluntly, nuked the Japanese twice

What?

NateEag•about 16 hours ago
I believe OP is saying that the US has not been reliably sane in its public policy since ending WW II via nuclear warfare.

I don't know if I agree with the claim overall, but I certainly think nuking civilian populations was an execrable choice (even if the official targets were technically military ones).

Ugvx•about 19 hours ago
The only reason why I needed nitter to access x is due to organizations still using it as their main communication solution to their customers. Even my local council uses it. I would like this to be the final push for people to get off x but I suspect its going g to stay and I guess I don't get to see news from my local council anymore.
dolebirchwood•about 18 hours ago
I'm totally clueless, but aren't there rules requiring accessibility of public-facing government communications, to the extent that they shouldn't be allowed to use a gated platform when making official statements that are a matter of public interest?
derbOac•about 18 hours ago
It should be that way.

My tolerance for people posting to X without also posting to an open platform is over.

Public institutions especially.

There's zero excuse, none.

alightsoul•about 15 hours ago
People don't seem to know about bluesky, the fediverse and the indie web enough.
zahlman•about 18 hours ago
> There's zero excuse, none.

How about the general lack of awareness of "open platforms", or of any given one of your objections to X?

Most people are not in the HN bubble.

culi•about 17 hours ago
Someone could certainly make a case in a lawsuit for an ADA violation. I bet if people organized, the city would listen before it got to that point

There are open meeting laws like the Brown Act but I think that only restricts relying on social media for deliberation. Not communication

There is also Lindke v. Freed (2024) which holds that public officials using social media can be sued under the First Amendment violations like blocking users or deleting comments.

mrngld•about 5 hours ago
Ya'll are talking lawsuits and organizing protests, but the reality is probably just that no one (outside the Bluesky/HN bubble, which is tiny) cares. Very few probably care what their local government is babbling about today in general, and even fewer what platforms they're using.

And yet if someone did care, there's a decent chance if they asked the right person in the right way they'd be like "Oh, Mastodon? Okay, sounds neat, oh you know what it's just another checkbox in the software we use to cross-post everything! I'll just check the box!"

But nah, lets not do the easy thing, lets look up legal precedent and ponder the ADA.

panny•about 16 hours ago
What open medium would you suggest as an alternative to X?

I miss the days when we had an RFC, people got together, came up with a solution, and we ended up with decentralized NNTP or something. Everything is someone's little kingdom now.

dlcarrier•about 13 hours ago
I presume the post is referencing principal councils in England or Wales. They're powerful enough to make life difficult, but small enough to not get a lot of oversight. From what I've heard, it's like a government-backed HOA, and they're notorious for doing whatever they want, while not letting you do what you want.
VLM•about 18 hours ago
No, and this policy goes back to publication in for-profit newspapers. Not an issue in the USA in general.

With a disclaimer that there's one zillion governmental entities on the planet overall, so its plausible that one requires no fee and no signup required.

fearmerchant•about 17 hours ago
Newspapers are still often required to be used for certain government publications and they cost money. TwitterX is free. I'm not clear what the controversy here is exactly.
etdznots•about 17 hours ago
It is not free? You just pay them with your private information and by looking at a few ads. That is not free. Unless you believe information and time have no value?
culi•about 17 hours ago
You need to make an account to access it. That's not free
Barrin92•about 16 hours ago
>I'm not clear what the controversy here is exactly.

Seems pretty obvious, not every citizen has access to twitter, there's no legitimate chain of trust and there's endless potential for corruption and manipulation.

In pretty much every developed country sans the US apparently governments, even local ones, tend to be obligated to publish information through their own channels because 1. they own them so you know communication is authentic, 2. they can't ban or restrict you from accessing it, they know how that information is made available, there's no financial conflict of interest.

It's completely possible for Twitter, given that the government has no insight into its technical operations, exert influence on who sees what and how. That alone is insane for public, government communication. If the government isn't sovereign in respect to its communications infrastructure your government is run by tech oligarchs

nomel•about 15 hours ago
It's not gated. You can read any non-adult post with a direct link. I'm seeing this perspective all over in here. As someone without an X account, I can only assume you all have X accounts to not know this!
thayne•about 15 hours ago
You can't see replies without an account, and it is pretty common for content to be posted as a series of replies to the first post
wasdly•about 15 hours ago
You can still view direct links, but you can’t scroll someone’s profile or use the search functionality without an account. How many I supposed to scroll a government organization’s tweets if I can only see the first few?
ncallaway•about 14 hours ago
Ah, and if that person has split their post into several messages, I can definitely read all of them from a direct link to the first message, right?

If I have a link to a local emergency department twitter handle, I can view all of their recent posts, right?

anigbrowl•about 18 hours ago
Can't you submit written/oral comments on this? Write letters to your local paper etc. You might need to be That Guy for a few months but sooner or later you're going to connect with other people who feel the same way.
p0w3n3d•about 18 hours ago
Web enshittification should be disallowed in public offices. It's so easy to create a news entry in Facebook or Twitter/X but they are always walling you from it unless you subscribe. This is unacceptable in public service sector.
sillyfluke•about 4 hours ago
...and a mandatory website for every app they tell you to download.
BLKNSLVR•about 14 hours ago
I really don't understand any place relying on a third party to publicise news.

(but I'm as fiercely independent as my own skills and ability to learn can manage)

frankacter•about 13 hours ago
You still have access to local council posts, without logging in. You need to log in to view the follow up discussions(comments) a subtle but important distinction

For example you can view the main post and included links in incognito not logged in, just not the "discussion"

https://x.com/ManCityCouncil/status/2091903421917892994?s=20

mechazawa•about 10 hours ago
That's assuming you have the link to their post. The profile page only shows the last 5 posts (assuming they are showing them in chronological order)
frankacter•about 6 hours ago
Seems X is balancing post visibility against bots, scraping, and some dark patterns that push people to sign in.

Showing everything is not viable under those competing goals. So they have settled on:

Show the post when someone has a direct link, but require login to see the discussion Show a limited number of recent posts on a profile, and require login for more

Raising that limit from 6 to 10 would not solve the real complaint: “I cannot see communication from my city.”

They already identify government official accounts. One simple option is to extend the visible timeline for those accounts only—six months or a year of posts—while still keeping discussions behind a login.

JeremyNT•about 14 hours ago
The main competitor in this space is sadly Instagram, which is no better.
ymolodtsov•about 10 hours ago
Final? If anything X seems to be more popular among users.
trueno•about 8 hours ago
you're smokin crack, i don't know a single person who uses twitter anymore. literally not one. 5+ years ago? _everyone_ was on twitter.
account42•about 6 hours ago
That's your bubble. Organizations are pretty much still exclusively using X and so are many individuals.
internet2000•about 16 hours ago
You could make an X account.
urbnspacecowboy•about 15 hours ago
Is Xitter still doing the "Your account was suspended for reasons, now you gotta dox yourself" dance? (EDIT: Yes, according to debazel's reply) That'd be a reason why "You could make an X account" isn't a reasonable suggestion.
TheAceOfHearts•about 13 hours ago
Personally I had an account since 2008 and it got locked for no discernible reason. The website asks me to scan a QR code from my phone to prove I'm a human, and even after grudgingly installing the mobile app to try and complete this verification it just keeps throwing me into a loop.
debazel•about 15 hours ago
Not possible, says phone number is invalid.
olyjohn•about 15 hours ago
You mean give them my e-mail and phone number so they can shit that all up too? No thanks.
silisili•about 12 hours ago
Don't forget your biometrics, too.
S0y•about 17 hours ago
https://joinmastodon.org/

https://bsky.app/

https://www.threads.com/

Pick literally any one of those, just seriously, if you're still on that platform, leave.

loufe•about 17 hours ago
I'm not sure why Threads makes your cut here, trading one walking negative externality of person in control for another is not really a sell to most folks.
Barrin92•about 16 hours ago
it has Fediverse interop. Skepticism obviously is warranted towards the owners but you can at least interact with an open protocol or consume threads content from a Mastodon instance, say.
danillonunes•about 13 hours ago
And Twitter used to have free API access. And Facebook Messenger used to have Jabber compatibility. I don't think those companies deserve any trust in regards of promoting them for their open initiatives.

Threads' activity pub gimmick is just a nice to have. It's the salad of the Big Mac. If you're going to eat it anyway, sure, glad it is there, but it doesn't make it deserve a spot in any serious discussion about healthy food alternatives.

riffraff•about 11 hours ago
FYI, threads does not have fediverse interop for European users.

As in, if you use threads and are in Europe, you have no option to enable mastodon to read threads replies.

wraptile•about 13 hours ago
> it has Fediverse interop.

It has been completely abandoned AFAIK. As expected, the good ol' classic EEE attempt, but it just didn't work due to decentralized architecture and just lack of actual capability from Meta.

pibaker•about 16 hours ago
Aren't many big mastodon instances talking about blocking Threads?

I don't like the mastodon culture but tbh I can't fault them for this move. Imagine if every post on r/all suddenly shows up on HN.

account42•about 6 hours ago
Facebook Messenger also used to have XMPP interop until they got the userbase they wanted and shut that down.
gl0w•about 7 hours ago
I am already on fediverse. My friends are too. It's where I post my dumb opinions on movies and pictures of my cats. But that is not what I used nitter for. I used nitter to pull posts of organizations and reporters to deliver breaking news in my area to me fast. I did this via the RSS endpoint in nitter. These journalists and organizations only post on twitter that fast. Their websites are updated much slower and often also don't have RSS feeds or APIs for me to scrape. I wish these orgs post on fedi too but they don't. So what am I to do? Nitter was for us people that have already left X.
Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe•about 2 hours ago
Have you tried reaching out to them and asking them to duplicate their posts to bluesky?
TkTech•about 16 hours ago
An interesting new one for Canadians (that's built on AT and interops with bsky) is https://gandersocial.ca/. It uses our national postal service's identity validation, so it dramatically reduces foreign actors and bots, and without handing PII to shady private companies like Persona. They collect no PII either, they just get an "is_a_human" response back from Canada Post.

You can still do read-only things like see threads and follow users as an anonymous user. Just can't post or comment. Only thing I don't like is that it's app-only for now.

dnlzro•about 14 hours ago
The web client just became available, actually! https://gander.social/profile/gander.social/post/17876029732...
Sweepi•about 7 hours ago
"You need an account to view content on Gander" Why would this be a good idea?
TkTech•about 11 hours ago
Oh thank you for this, that's fantastic. Still some edge cases (thread expansion seems odd?) but just having it as an option is great.
Melatonic•about 14 hours ago
Can us non Canadians sign up somehow ?
TkTech•about 11 hours ago
From their FAQ[1] the plan is to allow other countries eventually but for now it's read-only for non-Canadians. I imagine they have no interest in private KYC like Persona and integrating with national identity providers can be a real pain, if that country even has a unified service.

[1]: https://gandersocial.ca/faq/

zuzululu•about 8 hours ago
intersting take, I'm not Canadian but wasn't there some pretty draconian bills that were passed where you could be reported for voicing or sharing your opinions on some things ?

That already seems like a hard barrier for any sort of Canadian social network especially when you require your users to dox themselves and open themselves to all sorts of scrutiny.

The problem with all of this is that it creates a sterilized politically correct environment that won't have the same pull as a public square that upholds freedom of speech like American ones.

TkTech•about 7 hours ago
> intersting take, I'm not Canadian but wasn't there some pretty draconian bills that were passed where you could be reported for voicing or sharing your opinions on some things ?

Not a thing. You can't post hate speech or threats of violence.

> That already seems like a hard barrier for any sort of Canadian social network especially when you require your users to dox themselves and open themselves to all sorts of scrutiny.

Also not a thing. I was pretty clear all they get is a is_a_human".

> The problem with all of this is that it creates a sterilized politically correct environment that won't have the same pull as a public square that upholds freedom of speech like American ones.

Also not a thing. American platforms practice widespread self-censorship and have no protection under the law except from the state.

lynndotpy•about 5 hours ago
There is no American social media with more than 10,000 users that is not heavily censored.
huebnerob•about 16 hours ago
Wasn’t xcancel, sort of by definition, for people who have already left X?
maplethorpe•about 10 hours ago
I don't post there anymore but I do still check my DMs once a week, because every now and then someone will find my work through there, and I need people to find my work in order to survive. I unfortunately can't easily trade that in for a platform that no one visits.
numpad0•about 17 hours ago
They all get to the point where anime contents start flooding in pinning the system at capacity 24/7, scaring the wrong set of people, and then they chicken out and start dying a long death. This situation itself is downstream event of Twitter doing the same, in a sense.
misstuned•about 9 hours ago
I only use X (via XCancel etc) to read the updates from things like the local train company that they only post on X. They aren't on Bluesky or Mastodon. When I tried Mastodon, I found it too politically extreme, it felt like walking into an angry students' union meeting. It never seemed to catch on in the UK, it surfed a couple of waves of dissatisfaction with X, but people quickly drifted away.
davidw•about 17 hours ago
This article has a good explanation of why "you, yes you" should leave:

https://publiccomment.blog/p/it-is-past-time-for-you-to-quit...

lofaszvanitt•about 10 hours ago
All of these are seriously bad copycat alternatives of twitter. And since twitter's foundations are laid on moving bedrock.... the whole thing is a horrible abomination where the tendrils are these "alternatives".
broodbucket•about 4 hours ago
I'll take the bait, what makes Bluesky a bad copycat? It's just old Twitter. I can't for the life of me see what makes it "seriously bad", it has a pretty large userbase, it's seemingly got a decent number of normies to move over from X, it's pleasant enough to use. It's been a success.

Saying this as one of twelve Mastodon users.

snvzz•about 9 hours ago
Don't just throw some competitor URLs and tell us to "leave."

What's wrong with X? How are these options better?

mexicocitinluez•about 4 hours ago
You mean besides it being a factory for child pornography?
zuzululu•about 8 hours ago
I don't think any of them are better, I especially do not want to be on bluesky. on X you could still do your own thing and not be tied to the political extremism but its not the case with bluesky, people automatically perceive you to support the founder's political views and it has nowhere the same reach as X which is why I think the negative connotations are stronger on bluesky than X

X is used internationally, especially big in Japan and has lot of adoption among working professionals. Just my two cents and I personally don't really like X much either. Threads also isn't that great either.

flaburgan•about 8 hours ago
I did not plan to announce it yet as it is in a very early stage, I was targeting November, but I think it should be mentioned now: I am working on OpenWeb, https://framagit.org/open-web/open-web, a project which allows to access posts (at the moment only tweets but more platforms to be supported later) without any account nor tracking. It *downloads* them instead of proxying, with the goal to make the data public data. Of course, it can't download the full twitter database, so the scope is limited to entities which *have a wikipedia page*. That's the criteria for "is it famous enough", as wikimedia already has good rules about who/what deserves a wikipedia page or not. More on that project soon.
leobg•about 6 hours ago
How can that be legal? You’re assuming anyone famous enough to have a Wikipedia page is granting you a license to republish their content? I think the only thing between your project and a cease and desist is lack of popularity. If proxifying gets you into hot water, downloading will be worse.
flaburgan•about 5 hours ago
As I am not a lawyer, I can't confirm if this is legal or not. I do plan to contact legal people to tell me which kind of jurisdiction would allow that. I am still hopeful because: - This is only about public tweets - The project does not add any context or interpretation around them - The project links to the original content - Speeches by public people such as politicians or corporations are usually fine to be spread around. They actually want what they say to be as spread as possible. It would not cross anyone's mind to sue a newspaper because they quoted a tweet of a famous person, saying that there is PI on the content of the tweet.

This project is more an "Internet archive" of the social networks. There is no follow button, no way to comment or interact or anything. It just puts the data in the open. It may still be illegal as much as archive.org is illegal. To be seen.

thih9•about 4 hours ago
Could X similarly shut down a project like this with a cease and desist?
raphman•about 23 hours ago
Not much detail so far.

> We have received cease and desist letters. Awaiting legal advice at the moment, but for now expect all nitter instances to remain down for the foreseeable future.

[for all those who - like me - first check the comments before clicking on the link]

bambax•about 22 hours ago
They should respond with a poop emoji, which is what Musk sends to people he doesn't care about.
zamadatix•about 20 hours ago
Musk can afford to be childish about legal challenges because the outcome doesn't really matter to him.
alsetmusic•about 17 hours ago
I hate how a jerk like him can tie up the courts with frivolous lawsuits while regular people have their cases slowed down for things that actually matter.
anigbrowl•about 18 hours ago
You're 100% correct, but but it's exactly the sort of thing that would cause him to go on a tear and say something admissible.
b112•about 22 hours ago
Are they expecting legal advice to take a long tine?! It's fairly reasonable to check with a lawyer first, before damaging yourself by complying.

The legal system gets this concept. Otherwise random, unwarranted desist orders from your enemies could break you.

Anyone can send an request.

Weird.

sillysaurusx•about 22 hours ago
Legal advice costs a lot of money unless you find a lawyer doing it for free, which is rare.

I agree with the spirit of your comment though. More resistance would be a good thing. It’s just unfortunate how it seems to cost like $20k to $100k.

Nitter should put up a request for donations for legal fees. Lots of people are willing.

ad_hockey•about 10 hours ago
Somebody asked about that on the GitHub thread. You can donate at https://liberapay.com/zedeus or https://patreon.com/nitter.

They also take crypto (see Donations section in the project readme)

ForHackernews•about 18 hours ago
This seems like the sort of case the EFF should take up: https://www.eff.org/pages/legal-assistance
account42•about 5 hours ago
Yes and it's not like there hasn't been ton of precedent for scraping recently, including by X themselves, so why would they expect to not be able to win this?
ranger_danger•about 18 hours ago
Getting legal advice can absolutely take a long time, and the first thing they'll probably tell most people in this situation is "turn it off for now until we can do more research and collect money from you."

However, C&D's don't really carry any legal weight in the US to my knowledge... but I don't see any harm in complying ahead of time just to be safe. The only "damage" I can see is just by nature of the service being down temporarily.

If there is even a possibility that a court may find the service violating a law, I think the legal advisor would likely say to just leave the service down unless you have many tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars or more to fight it... you can most likely avoid the entire lawsuit altogether just by complying with the C&D. And this kind of suit is one that can easily ruin your company or even personal life... so avoiding it seems smart.

> Anyone can send an request.

As for emails, I think BIMI has solved this for some time now, at least for large companies.

account42•about 5 hours ago
> Getting legal advice can absolutely take a long time, and the first thing they'll probably tell most people in this situation is "turn it off for now until we can do more research and collect money from you."

Normally I would agree, but Nitter has been an adversarial integration from the start. I would expect them to have anticipated this attack.

> However, C&D's don't really carry any legal weight in the US to my knowledge... but I don't see any harm in complying ahead of time just to be safe. The only "damage" I can see is just by nature of the service being down temporarily.

Which is significant damage. By complying too eagerly you give those notices power that they would not otherwise have.

> If there is even a possibility that a court may find the service violating a law, I think the legal advisor would likely say to just leave the service down unless you have many tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars or more to fight it... you can most likely avoid the entire lawsuit altogether just by complying with the C&D.

If you're of that mindset why create Nitter in the first place. And they are pretty much guaranteed public (including financial support) for any lawsuit if they ask for it since Nitter is something a lot of people want to exist.

> And this kind of suit is one that can easily ruin your company or even personal life... so avoiding it seems smart.

It's ultimately not that smart when you're in the "business" of creating Nitter because it just tells the bullies that all that's needed is a nicely formatted letter and you'll fold.

b112•about 18 hours ago
"only damage". That's the damage. Five 9s is a thing, because being down means you lose market, your brand is harmed, and no one wants to use you. No one complies with 'cease and desist' orders before seeing if there's any meat at all. No one.

And the legal system "gets that". Reasonable compliance isn't "Oh, someone sent me a C&D. I should destroy my entire business on the off change it makes sense to do so. I'll just raze everything to the ground, hoping that it's better than just... having everything razed to the ground through a suit."

Just.. no. The legal system knows that due diligence is not simply complying, but instead taking time to validate the claim, see if it makes sense, and so on. After all, if the matter were truly urgent, an injunction could easily be obtained.

tossit444•about 22 hours ago
From Nitter matrix group:

basically, it demands that I:

1. Permanently take down nitter.net and the GitHub repository, and delete all "X Data" in both 2. Stop all use of the "Twitter" and "X" marks 3. Cease all access to X data, including copies 4. Delete all X account credentials and session tokens 5. Confirm compliance in writing within three business days

The claims asserted are breach of X's Terms of Service, Developer Agreement and Developer Policy; the Texas Harmful Access by Computer Act; and the Lanham Act. It threatens litigation against me personally. X states it has also sent notice to GitHub and to my domain registrar.

phatfish•about 20 hours ago
So much free speech.
dminik•about 17 hours ago
The global town square is locked up in a gated community.
scosman•about 20 hours ago
A new case where the "free as in speech, not free as in beer" clarification helps.
antonvs•about 19 hours ago
Is this what free speech absolutism looks like?
account42•about 5 hours ago
Why not use those three days (or any time that can still be considered reasonable to respond to this) to contact the EFF before responding by taking down the site?
pessimizer•about 21 hours ago
> 1. Permanently take down nitter.net and the GitHub repository[...]

This is the one that they know they have absolutely no grounds to demand, which is why they started with it. Everything else can be conformed with without even really damaging Nitter (the project.)

> 4. Delete all X account credentials and session tokens

could be trouble for individual servers, but is on legally shaky ground, and servers can simply go down at the first strong challenge and open back up under another name. Nitter the project doesn't need to have any credentials or tokens.

orange999•about 20 hours ago
"For the forseeable future" doesn't sound very good. It's a vague phrase, but it usually isn't used to describe something that will change next week or even next month.

"For the time being" would have sounded like less bad wording than "for the forseeable future."

NoboruWataya•about 23 hours ago
What is the main use case for X these days? Is it still as popular as it used to be? Clearly the exodus that happened when Musk took it over didn't kill it but I do seem to see fewer links to it than I used to.

Whenever I do see it linked on here it seems to be because one of the big tech CEOs has said something on it.

dwedge•about 23 hours ago
This is only tenuously related but every single Mac app I see advertised on X by verified accounts is malware. I reported one last week to them, they said it's not malware. I appealed it and said the install link is copy and paste obfuscated base64 into your terminal, and they said after review it doesn't break their terms.

So whatever else they do, they take money to knowingly promote malware.

jerlam•about 21 hours ago
It's not just Mac apps. A Twitter ad is a negative indicator, and makes me less interested in the product.
zahlman•about 18 hours ago
> the install link is copy and paste obfuscated base64

This doesn't make it malware, as likely as it is that malware would hide itself like that. base64 encoding avoids issues with quoting and escaping in the terminal, and is an easy way to include a bit of binary data that might be needed by a command (or even just written directly to disk somewhere). "Obfuscated base64" is only saying something if you decoded the base64 and still got an obfuscated result. Install-time code execution is more dangerous in the sense that you can't review between installation and program execution; but custom installers come from the same source as the program, so it's the same number of parties to trust.

For that matter, PyPA still maintains bootstrap.pypa.io so that Python users can get current versions of pip by downloading and running a Python script that loads a base85 string, decodes it and writes a wheel file based on that. (It even duplicates some of the standard library `ensurepip` logic.)

If you want a malware report to be taken seriously, in general, you should expect to roll up your sleeves and be able to provide an analysis of concrete malicious behaviour.

dwedge•about 5 hours ago
> If you want a malware report to be taken seriously, in general, you should expect to roll up your sleeves and be able to provide an analysis of concrete malicious behaviour.

I reported them all the Cloudflare and Cloudflare took them down. One moved away from Cloudflare, and Twitter kept them up.

I reported another to NiceNIC and they asked for: 1. Verifiable malicious download file or sample hash 2. Screenshot or screen recording with the full URL visible 3. Evidence of malicious scripts, obfuscated code, or download chain 4. HTTP response, redirect chain, headers, or packet capture data 5. Third-party security verdict tied to the specific URL or file

I just ignored them. I don't work for them and if they want to host illegal content then it's not my business decision.

This one in particular had the download in base64, piping into Javascript and running a binary as a fake Apple Updater script.

But I am sick of this attitude that it's my responsibility for a malware report to be taken seriously. If they introduce malware bounties then ok, but otherwise I'm doing them a favour by reporting it and if they want to continue to host it after reasonable being made aware of its existence, they should be legally responsible.

Brendinooo•about 22 hours ago
>What is the main use case for X these days?

I use it to follow people who either have ideas I find interesting or do stuff I find interesting, and typically I'm looking for accounts that are small enough that I know they will at least see my replies, and often interact with them. (Something like 3K-15K followers for most of them, I think.)

I also think it's indispensable for real-time commentary and niche commentary on current events: always requires grains of salt but there's just no better place on the Internet for that sort of thing, in part because...

It's the one major social network I'm on where it is easy to view only posts from the people I follow, in reverse chronological order. A feed I TRULY control (and, if you follow the right people, insulates you from much of the nonsense on the site).

And every once in awhile, some insane viral nonsense pokes in that makes you say "how could I ever quit this site". There's a certain genre of satirical accounts that is very entertaining as well. Definitely a guilty pleasure component to it all!

>Is it still as popular as it used to be?

A quick search roughly aligns with my perception: it bottomed out a couple of years ago and has gradually recovered, though not to where it was pre-X.

kemayo•about 21 hours ago
> It's the one major social network I'm on where it is easy to view only posts from the people I follow, in reverse chronological order.

Oh weird, I'd rate X as medium-hard for that amongst the microposting sites I look at. Mastodon and Bluesky both default to almost-that, varying mostly in whether you need to jump through hoops to not see reposts.

X was always the one that (a) doesn't default to it, and (b) would keep "forgetting" and pushing you back to the algorithmic feed.

Brendinooo•about 21 hours ago
>amongst the microposting sites I look at

"major" was doing a bit of work for me. Facebook, Instagram, Reddit were more in mind when I said that.

>would keep "forgetting" and pushing you back

This hasn't happened to me in awhile. Dunno if it was a transient thing, an app thing, or something that has been reversed.

alex1138•about 17 hours ago
The problem is that network effects are everything

You are using a relic of what-used-to-be-Twitter. That's what people signed up for. I happen to think what Musk has done - although I'm highly skeptical of him - is not totally insane - Twitter did used to have some pretty notable censorship. But you follow people because that's where the people are. Competition does not spring up overnight, companies know this, and so they're left to gradually (or quickly!) enshittify

"easy to view only posts from the people I follow, in reverse chronological order"

Yes, well. That should be the standard. Companies that don't follow that standard should be turned into pariahs

watwut•about 9 hours ago
> Twitter did used to have some pretty notable censorship.

Can we stop this bullshit? It has away more censorship now. And its censorship before Musk was already biased toward conservatives, punishing left more severely. Must made it massively worst.

kyle-rb•about 22 hours ago
I haven't left because there are still circles of people I follow that haven't bailed. Once a large enough majority move to Bluesky, I'll start browsing that app more.

On the other hand, I might start posting on Bluesky more because as of a week ago, I'm shadowbanned on X. I know people throw that term around, but nobody on the site can see any of my reply tweets, even me (unless I scroll my account's 'replies' tab); people who've followed me for years are asking why their tweet has a ghost reply.

I don't think X has that much of an incentive to filter out bots while keeping around accounts like me (200 followers, will never pay for Premium). The slightly higher effort bots that glaze tech CEOs will be basically indistinguishable from the real people glazing tech CEOs because they're wannabe founders trying to network/cloutfarm. And that style of dead internet is fine with Elon.

zuzululu•about 8 hours ago
> Once a large enough majority move to Bluesky, I'll start browsing that app more

The problem is a network effect. Lot of people rage quit X and then they return to it because they realize the reach isn't there on Bluesky, and whenever that happens it just sends strong signals

I don't really like X either, I feel like the feed algorithm isn't very good and just shows the same thing repeated by multiple accounts.

I'm trying to objectively view the two platforms without the partisan rhetorics. There isn't that many places besides Threads.

I personally like the old php forums which had a real presence.

SmirkingRevenge•about 4 hours ago
What's funny is that people who use social media to drive traffic seem to consistently say they get more real click throughs to their content from bsky than twitter, despite having a fraction of the follower counts and post engagement that they have on twitter (even before all the barriers Musk enacted to keep users on twitter).
antonvs•about 19 hours ago
No moral dimension to this whatsoever for you?
sillysaurusx•about 22 hours ago
That sounds infuriating. I hope you can recover your account.
kyle-rb•about 22 hours ago
My initial suspicion was that my account was flagged because I only used the web version (the PWA experience on mobile is pretty good) so I've been using the Android app the last few days, and I'll see if that has any signal on my account.

In another view days I'll try filing a support ticket, maybe claiming something like "I was mass-reported by DSA leftists for my right-wing views"; things along those lines have gotten some peoples' permanent suspensions lifted.

pessimizer•about 21 hours ago
> as of a week ago, I'm shadowbanned on X. I know people throw that term around, but nobody on the site can see any of my reply tweets, even me

This is honestly the real value of nitter far beyond anti-Musk shriekers being obsessed with and addicted to X but not wanting to log into X. Nitter seems to simply give you everything - and you can plainly see which tweets are getting huge distribution and which ones nobody is seeing.

xtracto•about 20 hours ago
It's deplorable, but our president in Mexico recently was asked about some current affairs a d her answer was "ive written about it in X , go see it there" ...

As if X was an official government publishing channel . WTH, they should publish it on they official government pages.

autoexec•about 19 hours ago
There should be laws that require all government statements to be published on an official government site and be forever archived there no matter where or however else they were published. That way politicians can take advantage of the reach of social media sites while not requiring anyone to use them and also providing a means for those statements to be verified and preserved.
conception•about 19 hours ago
There are in the US. Just the current administration doesn’t follow them.
scientifik•about 19 hours ago
This right here is the thing that shows how much influence big tech has. Everyone has their anecdotal story about porn, spam, malware or whatever flooding Twitter meanwhile your local city government treats it as an official communications channel.
frereubu•about 22 hours ago
In a UK context, journalists are on there because politicians are on there... and politicians are on there because journalists are on there. It's politicians that need to pull the plug - if they left en masse the journalists would go where they went, even if they stayed on X too - but nobody has the balls to do it. (Aside from one politician who for all practical purposes seems to do absolutely nothing: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyrx1ee2r4o).
defrost•about 21 hours ago
A problem for the UK here is things like Rupert Lowe set to be paid as much for divisive posts on X as for being MP - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/aug/24/rupert-lowe...
dom96•about 19 hours ago
They could at least use both. I'm pretty annoyed with Andy Burnham. He's had a Bluesky account that has been pretty active... right up until he became a PM. Would it kill him to get a member of his team to repost his tweets to Bluesky?
fg137•about 22 hours ago
From what I can tell, most Twitter users outside English speaking countries don't care about who is the CEO at all. Business as usual.
miladyincontrol•about 22 hours ago
Thats sorta my situation, a scene I'm rather involved in has most the international users there, as such thats where things still live. Every other alternative has failed to gain enough traction for one reason or another.

Its usually either limited features, regional accessibility issues, or platforms like metas' just basically trading one big bad organization for another.

lynndotpy•about 5 hours ago
For one of the big use cases, you can look at the NCMEC's reports-by-ESP numbers.

For example, X has 816K and X AI has 135K reports. Reddit, despite having 200M (36%) more MAU, only has 65K reports. OpenAI, despite having about 8x MAU than X.ai, has 182K reports.

tokioyoyo•about 23 hours ago
Depends on the algos. My jp account sees none of that, mostly news, jokes and some random what’s happening in parts of Japan.

NA tuned account has more of what you said.

rootsudo•about 22 hours ago
The algos aren’t language neutral yet.

Yet. Japanese twitter users are a reflection of who they are, etc etc

Doesn’t mean there isn’t toxic stuff though.

tokioyoyo•about 22 hours ago
After some time, and muting/skipping through the usual japanese race-content, it’s more bearable. Fastest way for me to find the reason why a train line is down and etc.

Like last week my feed was all about Chiba flooding. Very relevant.

CM30•about 19 hours ago
Companies and celebrities are a major use case here. Lots of them (especially ones from non-English speaking countries) still use the site as their primary means of communication. For example, Nintendo doesn't have an official presence on Bluesky, Threads or Mastodon, just Twitter.

There's a decent number of old school companies and creatives who either don't know/care about alternatives, or who tried them and went back to Twitter/X.

burningChrome•about 20 hours ago
>> What is the main use case for X these days?

More of a political echo chamber than anything else. I mothballed my original account when things were getting spicy which was primarily focused on dev, UI/UX, and InfoSec news. I finally went back and have had some great interactions with people about technical stuff that interests me. Right now, the data center and AI discussions are getting intense along with Omarchy, lol. If you steer clear of the political stuff, you can find some good stuff still.

>> Is it still as popular as it used to be?

Probably not but it still ranks ahead of sites like Reddit. Its like the 13th, 14th most popular platform right now. I log on mainly just to see if I'm missing anything. Other than that, most of the engagement I have is curiosity and just fun stuff like seeing people posting retro games, stuff like that.

>> Whenever I do see it linked on here it seems to be because one of the big tech CEOs has said something on it.

X is now kind of the social media cul-de-sac . It used to be one of the go to places for breaking tech, popular cultural and political stuff. Now its usually two or three days late to the party on anything worthwhile. So the posts from the CEO probably made the rounds before you finally saw it on X. lol

janejeon•about 22 hours ago
I'm surprised people didn't mention this, but I find it to be unbeatable in these two areas:

1. Japanese community 2. Porn (good god, so much porn)

bonoboTP•about 21 hours ago
AI research, computer vision/machine learning academic projects and papers, conferences.
KronisLV•about 21 hours ago
> What is the main use case for X these days? Is it still as popular as it used to be?

No idea comparatively, but an artist friend of mine tried out Bluesky and then complained about how there's way more of a limited reach and engagement there compared to Twitter.

runjake•about 21 hours ago
It’s still fairly popular, but the statistics show that X usage is gradually declining. Elon claims that X is more popular than ever, but the platform doesn’t publicly release its own stats, and publicly available stats say otherwise.

If you like AI and tech, there are some pretty thriving sub-communities. AI stuff, and a lot of tech stuff happens on X first. Claudebot/OpenClaw/Hermes all began on X months before I commonly saw them appear on other platforms.

pyinstallwoes•about 16 hours ago
What public stats say otherwise?
spike021•about 22 hours ago
I've made a lot of friends in Japan through shared interest communities that are mostly on twitter. Most are people I've actually met whenever I am in Japan.
TitaRusell•about 23 hours ago
Breaking news. If a bomb goes off or a plane goes down people post it to X.
shermantanktop•about 22 hours ago
Personally I have zero interest. If it's a big enough deal, it'll get to me somehow. Knowing about it 15s after it happened and then seeing a flood of uninformed speculation would be stressful.

Others do value that, no judgment, but for me it's be a net negative.

stephen_g•about 17 hours ago
Yeah, I used to watch things like this, I stopped using Twitter the second it became called 'X' and actually find I don't miss it including the major event live-tweeting.

Since then I've had a look on XCancel when there have been major events once or twice and yeah, most of the flurry of real time updates turn out to be misinformed or just plain wrong later anyway... I don't miss it.

vatsachak•about 19 hours ago
Yeah browsing every stressful piece of news on X was unironically increasing my cortisol levels
derbOac•about 21 hours ago
They post it other places also in my experience. Twitter doesn't have the monopoly on that it used to.
autoexec•about 19 hours ago
If nothing else news agencies publish articles that are nothing but copies of tweets. Sometimes just one sentence long, other times there's no text at all and just a link to the original post. It's basically the same experience, especially since the news media isn't always bothering to fact check or verify anything either in the rush to get views/ad serves.
asdff•about 22 hours ago
I mean, if it is real it's on every wire service there is too, with slightly less hysteria.
Marsymars•about 21 hours ago
I ventured onto Twitter for the first time in maybe a year to check on some breaking news around America/Canada tariffs and trade war.

The comment section was pretty awful; 90% people yelling about Canada's government being a tyranny and/or in bed with Communist China.

notthemessiah•about 19 hours ago
Bluesky Social is more useful for news. I can use custom clients such as https://sill.social/ which just aggregate the links and commentary from my feeds, and catch up on what news is important to the ppl I'm following.

Whenever I check X, it's always just misinformation, and it's impossible to see what people actually say because bluechecks are always the first to show up in the algorithmic ranking. On political commentary: they were dying hard for Graham Platner saying he was the only option, but then Troy Jackson who replaced him did better in the polls.

j-bos•about 18 hours ago
If you want alpha on things x is the place to be, aside from some discord servers. I've recently leaned off hn and onto twitter.
gdulli•about 23 hours ago
The biggest social networks can only die slowly. They have too much momentum for the the type of sudden exodus that was possible when the internet had not yet absorbed the entire population.
dredmorbius•about 22 hours ago
Unless they're shut down.

G+ comes to mind.

(Several billion profiles, tens of millions active. Shut down 1 Apr 2019. Yes, April Fools' Day.)

Lammy•about 19 hours ago
My feed is mostly people petting rabbits
vaylian•about 23 hours ago
There is a lot of Ukraine war reporting on twitter.
dopa42365•about 13 hours ago
Those are all telegram reposts, barely anyone in the former combloc uses twitter.
cmrdporcupine•about 22 hours ago
fwiw a lot of the key accounts for this now also post to both Bluesky and Mastodon
senderista•about 19 hours ago
I don't follow the war anymore but I used to follow twitter OSINT accounts supporting both sides; I find it hard to imagine pro-Russian accounts posting on bsky or fedi?
Melatonic•about 20 hours ago
Its main use for myself was that posts were public by default so lots of government orgs and whatnot posted real time status updates. I never really used it except for occasionally checking those.

Now that more and more are going "walled garden" I don't get it at all

Leynos•about 22 hours ago
It's mostly a porn site these days
loeg•about 21 hours ago
This is one of those situations where describing your algorithmic feed tells us more about you than about Twitter.
lynndotpy•about 5 hours ago
I think we should leave this kind of argument for schoolchildren denigrating one another and for the deranged people who will dole out verbal abuse to defend their favorite platforms and/or CEOs.

This is not one of "those situations".

dan-robertson•about 18 hours ago
I think it was historically something like 30% of Twitter traffic. I don’t think this is a new trend in terms of total volume but maybe the filtering got a lot worse.
Markoff•about 21 hours ago
that's my experience with using anonymous search on Nitter instance as well, so hardly anything about me using it without any account
loeg•about 21 hours ago
> What is the main use case for X these days?

The same as it ever was. Short-form gossip. News, discussion, jokes.

Marha01•about 22 hours ago
> What is the main use case for X these days?

There are lots of interesting people/orgs on X from AI/ML circles, as well as Ukraine war OSINT accounts and UA army helpers. I stay on X pretty much for these two topics.

anonzzzies•about 23 hours ago
Guess one has to, because there are just too many people on there. I don't like it but what can I do. What I hate the most is that states/countries, prime ministers and kings post on there. And that the emergency services of some countries have that as primary channel. I understand cross posting to the most popular social channels, but primary? That SHOULD be a local channel, not some dystopian shit hole you could be banned from randomly.
angoragoats•about 19 hours ago
I have not used Twitter since 2022 (nuked my account) and I have not missed it even once. You should give it a try.
bluecalm•about 22 hours ago
A lot of interesting people who do interesting things post on X. You can follow them and have interesting feed. You don't get it on FB/Insta or Tiktok.

>>Whenever I do see it linked on here it seems to be because one of the big tech CEOs has said something on it.

Yeah just a big tech CEOs posting (or an author of a big project, or an engineer working for a top lab), nothing to see here. On to another dancing teenager on TikTok. Let's watch some pranks or a "beauty influencer" on Insta where we are at it instead.

rascul•about 22 hours ago
There's lots of US sports content. That's all I use it for.
yubblegum•about 21 hours ago
> What is the main use case for X these days?

twitter/x remains the domain of intelligence agencies worldwide. It is a semi-open (the world first virtual leader, the ayatollah affirms he exists from there ..) psychological operations platform that permits the avatars of "world leaders" to speak to masses and also hosts a parasitical community of grifters ("opinion makers" and "influencers") that feed off of the festering fetid matter served up by the Spook International.

a secondary purpose of the twitter/x is a reverse doomsday clock, based on above. As long as the ghost of this unprofitable "business entity" is kept alive by funny money and funny deals, we can sleep soundly at night knowing there won't be ww3 or any other such extreme negotiating tactics by global elite, since they are all 'playing their role' on twitter currently known as x.

SwellJoe•about 20 hours ago
I don't believe the extremism engine of Xitter is reducing the risk of global catastrophe. I think it's accelerating that risk. Certainly it helped elect Trump, and no one can argue that's been good for advancing the cause of peace on earth or avoiding several other causes of mass death.
angoragoats•about 19 hours ago
I see many, many Twitter posts here. I flag every single one. Many of them are AI-related, and not something from a big tech CEO. It seems that many fans of AI don’t have any moral quandaries with using it. I will let you be the judge of whether that says anything about their moral compass in general.
naasking•about 23 hours ago
Linking to X is less useful than it used to be.
bee_rider•about 22 hours ago
IIRC you can’t even read a single post without an account, it is equivalent to posting a link to a private Facebook group or whatever from an outsider point of view.
delecti•about 19 hours ago
What's difficult is reading threads, or more broadly replies. But single posts? Absolutely fine, in fact it's about the only thing that is totally functional without being logged in.
nomel•about 18 hours ago
This is incorrect.

You can see the last few posts of an account [1], and the contents of a single posts, but minimal or no comments [2]. Videos play after dismissing the login popup.

[1] https://x.com/ID_AA_Carmack

[2] https://x.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/2091983940609245467

naasking•about 20 hours ago
You can read posts you link to directly, but no comments. That's what makes it less useful.
g-b-r•about 22 hours ago
It's actively harmful to many people, copy and paste the text if there's no other source
Gigachad•about 16 hours ago
It's become just another doomscroll content mill like the rest. Public figures and well known names have been replaced with random content creators and repost bots.
CamperBob2•about 19 hours ago
What is the main use case for X these days? Is it still as popular as it used to be?

Yes, because influential, non-evil people who should know better just will not fucking leave. The vast majority of public-minded ML developers and researchers, including people who compete with xAI, being an obvious example.

And because skilled, knowledgeable people who could create a replacement service just will not do so. At least not without finding new and innovative forehead-slapping ways to fail at it.

Incredibly frustrating that Xitter is still as popular as it is.

lemaomao•about 6 hours ago
> non-evil people

> ML developers and researchers

Brother in Christ, pick one.

lynndotpy•about 5 hours ago
I'm an ML developer and researcher and I left X. A lot of us did and do believe neural networks can provide utility for humanity.

There's just a lot of money in drinking the AGI LLM VC WN koolaid. Not everyone has drank that koolaid.

csomar•about 21 hours ago
I rarely use it (you need an account, so I need to add cancel to the url) but last time I had a "guest" account was two years ago and it was pretty much all bots. That being said, some (important) people or companies still use it for announcement but these are usually linked and xcancel works just fine.

I honestly have no idea if there are real people who actually use it daily. Who can read that stuff?

23asfdnb•about 23 hours ago
All journalists and politicians are there, including left wing. If you want to know e.g. what the Prime Minister of Pakistan really said instead of some news spin, you have to read his tweets.

It is an elite club, and Musk wants you to pay for it.

I don't know why it is legal for EU politicians to use this walled garden for important messages.

Someone outside of the US jurisdiction (China?) has to keep xcancel.com running.

lazzlazzlazz•about 22 hours ago
Incredibly unpopular opinion on Hacker News, but X remains the center of many circles, including tech. There is almost nothing posted on Hacker News that I haven't seen on X first, with better commentary.
Melatonic•about 14 hours ago
Examples ?
shevy-java•about 23 hours ago
Actually I retired from twitter before Musk, because twitter started to censor me. But of course once Musk took over, constantly raising his right arm, I knew twitter was dead. Here in Europe nobody wants to see selfish and ruthless right-wing nuts control ecosystems. Billionaires pulling the strings does not work; the USA need to learn this lesson first.
slater•about 22 hours ago
Are you gonna tell us how Twitter started censoring you, or is this a "which opinions, mf-er" goose meme situation?
kotaKat•about 7 hours ago
You know what, I'll throw my hat into the ring on Shitter censorship:

Once enough 'big' accounts block you for any arbitrary reason they like, your account is heavily downweighted enough to send your replies, posts, and everything into yet another class of shadowban that isn't a shadowban.

I've never interacted with the ilks of people like a16z and yet their Twitter block definitely causes a heavier algo downrank impact just 'being' there.

veeti•about 17 hours ago
Terminally online, infighting and purity testing leftist weirdos who never have and never will achieve anything politically continue to push "nazi bar" rhetoric, but actual people just don't give a shit. Here's some far right nazis for your reference:

https://x.com/vonderleyen https://x.com/ZelenskyyUa https://x.com/liandersson https://x.com/AmnestyEU

q8zd3•about 23 hours ago
It's a social experiment about [variable] universal basic income
rogerrogerr•about 23 hours ago
Can you expand on this? I'm not tracking.
nemomarx•about 23 hours ago
They have those payouts for check marks? A lot of people post click bait for views to bring in small amounts of money, usually from a poorer country I think
q8zd3•about 19 hours ago
Verified profiles get money based on engagement rate of their posts, only from other verified profiles; I don't think I need to tell you the quality of said posts, AI slop included.

They are literally getting money (not making) without producing anything and that aligns with Elon's world view of a jobless civilization driven by AI and robots.

giancarlostoro•about 23 hours ago
There's people from all walks of life and all corners of the internet on there still, good and bad. Twitter was always a darned mess, the only difference now is you can't just report people and bully them off the site.

Contrast to me trying to open BlueSky, and seeing death threats and other insane things. I've also heard (though never personally seen, nor do I want to) that BlueSky has a CSAM problem. Those two factors alone kept me from even trying it out.

What's really weird is there were a ton of claims that disappeared, about how X was full of bots, but X is the opposite of full of bots. Maybe there's one or another, but they're highly under the radar, X has improved their bot problem drastically.

Edit (tweaked some words, and wanted to add):

Then there was Threads, I am not in any way interested in "New Twitter" by Mark Zuckerberg, no thanks.

nobleach•about 23 hours ago
I really can't deal with BlueSky. I wanted to because I had a lot of good "starter packs" for NeoVim and OCaml development. Nerd stuff is the reason I visit these sites. The problem is, I start following people and it almost always turns into politics. I may even AGREE with the person's politics but I hate reading and talking about it. God forbid I ever disagree.

Funny thing though. I've heard the claims of "CSAM on Twitter" and now "CSAM on BlueSky". I've never had any of that ransomly show up. I do still have 2 or so random follows from clip-art female avatars with no tweets - per week. I've never quite figured out how that scam is supposed to work. I used to block 'em, now I ignore 'em.

ceroxylon•about 22 hours ago
I want to like Bluesky but have run into the same issue with politics as you.

Worse yet, people get so blinded that they lose the plot entirely... I asked someone about the accounting of a Palestinian fund raiser they were promoting.

They got very defensive so I looked into it, and it was a scam. I pointed this out to the poster to let them know, and they wrote a snide response which got their followers to brigade me.

numpad0•about 21 hours ago
What actually show up consistently wherever "CSAM on ___" claims are used against, from Twitter to actual porn sites, or WWW in general, is large amount of contents related to anime and/or East Asians(often above 25) on a rapid constant growth and/or already dominating the place. Only rarely it's about actual CSAM.
xhevahir•about 21 hours ago
I don't know whether it's a founder effect of the users that fled there from X, or the mass-blocking features, but no site is as good at enforcing political orthodoxy as Bluesky. A near perfect echo chamber.
dokyun•about 22 hours ago
> Nerd stuff is the reason I visit these sites.

Fedi is a lot better if you want nerd stuff specifically, running instances attracts a lot of hackers who're geared toward it. The big instances are pretty much the same shlock you get on Twitter/Bluesky but there's a lot of cool people in the margins (tip: look for instances that aren't running Mastodon).

anonzzzies•about 23 hours ago
Never had issues with bluesky, but i'm a lurker and I have a llm filtering (here on HN, X, bluesky, reddit etc) which removes political stuff and boosts stuff I likely will like.
nemomarx•about 23 hours ago
If you look at the replies to basically any big post, you'll see all the blue checkmark bots in there. Usually just copying posts, sometimes doing a weird ai summary of the original post in a way that isn't actually replying to it.

I've got no idea if they're somehow making money off it or what's up

tuesdaynight•about 23 hours ago
Followed by the porn bots, the racist bots, the "American" bot, etc. I'm really surprised how someone can use X and say that it is not full of bots. It's the same on Reddit.
numpad0•about 22 hours ago
> I've also heard (though never personally seen, nor do I want to) that BlueSky has a CSAM problem.

There really isn't, unless you mean anime content(of both SFW and NSFW alike) by "CSAM". In case you mean by that, then there is, otherwise no. It also appears to be highly locale dependent - some say they see timeline filled to the brim with fetish furry images and male gay nudity dressed with right wing politics, but my timeline is like just Twitter 2014 stuck at 3AM without any of those. I don't use any filters or blocklists, the place seem naturally nice-ish.

> about how X was full of bots

They appear to have largely given up and scaled back efforts to replace existing social graphs by funding African/Middle Eastern/Indian/South Asian content farms under the guise of revenue sharing programs, burning out talents west to east, likely with the conclusion that they're all equally incapable of understanding contents posted on Twitter even without the language barrier, let alone gaining popularity and even with literal algorithmic manipulations. Or they just burned through quite a deep talent pool globally.

That effort started after Twitter was bought, beginning around South Africa or Nigeria. So it's not an improvement, unless you count someone ceasing hostility as an improvement.

ErroneousBosh•about 23 hours ago
Bluesky has a weed problem, but eventually you can tune the algorithm to only show you thirty or forty posts about weed every day.
numpad0•about 22 hours ago
I think those are ultimately a locale dependent content bandwidth problem. Unwanted content has to be recommended if there were nothing else to show. Discovery feed on bsky.app gives me game news, local news, cat pics, some center-left politics, manga panels, food pics, random personal updates, cat pics, all warm and fuzzy stuffs.

I don't get any CSAM, alt-right, nazism, weed, ragebaits, unwanted gay contents. Simply none of those. But I don't normally set the language to English, and I suspect that might have to do with not getting those stuffs.

criddell•about 22 hours ago
smith7018•about 23 hours ago
I genuinely can't take this comment seriously if you think BlueSky has a CSAM and bullying problem while staying on X.
golf1052•about 23 hours ago
devmor•about 23 hours ago
> I've also heard (though never personally seen, nor do I want to) that BlueSky has a CSAM problem.

I left X permanently because the unfathomable amount of CSAM being generated by Grok, without seeing it myself, sickened me to the point of no return.

I don’t use Bluesky but it seems to me that if this is a real concern to you, then you should have left X as well.

criddell•about 22 hours ago
I only log in to X a couple times a month, but the only type of Grok post I've ever seen is somebody retweeting a post and adding something like "grok, is this true?".
flaburgan•about 9 hours ago
Actual announcement on https://nitter.net/ :

Cease and desist

On 24 August 2026 cease and desist letters have been sent by X Corp. demanding a permanent takedown of Nitter instances and the project's repository.

nitter.net is offline and development has stopped for the time being. I'm seeking legal advice and won't be commenting further on the specifics for now.

Thank you to everyone who used, hosted, packaged, donated and contributed to Nitter over the past seven years. — zedeus, 25 August 2026

pibaker•about 17 hours ago
Whenever Meta is mentioned on HN, there will be HN users asking why people are still on Facebook or Instagram when we all know Meta hired psychology PHDs to make their products addictive yadda yadda. Usually you will just see people tell each other that they have gotten off Facebook before it became uncool. You hardly see anyone accusing each other of virtue signaling or having any kind of political slant.

But Twitter or X comes up, someone will say they don't use it, and people will start calling out their supposed virtue signaling and making wild speculations about their politics in no time.

Why?

veeti•about 9 hours ago
Believe it or not but outside the USA there are over a billion people who use Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp services daily to conduct their daily lives and business. You do not speak for the average Indian or Indonesian and the world does not revolve around America.
happytoexplain•about 17 hours ago
Edit: OK, I think I see your question.

Elon is much more explicitly/publicly on one side of US politics than Meta is. That's why people accuse his critics of playing politics (a convenient scapegoat).

sellmesoap•about 11 hours ago
For what it's worth people say Facebook helped get trump elected (through use of targeted campaigns using FBs analytics/targeting) the book Carless People covers it a bit, among many other distasteful happenings at meta.
zamadatix•about 15 hours ago
I've never really noticed a difference in the trends for either. For the most part, all of the comments are about how anywhere but HN is complete shit and even HN is not as good as it used to be. There are always a few saying "but that's where everyone is". Inevitably, someone will post a link to something we all hate on constantly, be it one of these kinds of sites or a paywalled news article or whatever, and we're all just supposed to either know the currently working proxy or hope someone has already posted the link in the comments.

One thing I have universally noticed is it doesn't matter what it is or how many sides there are to it, someone always thinks HN is unfair to one side in favor of another. Usually multiple someone at the same time, and usually not even from the opposing side as each other claims.

And I don't know, maybe there is an 80/20 bias or something. I just don't know how I would or wouldn't reliably know that on intuition/things I notice rather than running the numbers on comment data.

numpad0•about 17 hours ago
Musk and his supporters project a lot. They have some neural condition or notoriety as popularity strategy or something that makes him/them hate everything, and they performatively state that "___ hates Elon"(often verbatim) out of that. It's not exactly organic.
sillysaurusx•about 22 hours ago
I’ve been writing an HN clone that’s literally a clone. It copies all front page posts and comments. I just wanted to say publicly that dang is awesome. Instead of shutting down the idea, he’s been actively helping the project by answering periodic emails and… well, not shutting it down.

Not sure what to do with it yet. Maybe I could let users have custom filtering rules. But the point is, companies should support community projects like this, not throw around ToS violation claims like they’d hold up in court.

Eridrus•about 20 hours ago
This makes sense for HN as a marketing project for YC.

This doesn't make sense for ad supported platforms where the value is the eyeballs on their site.

sillysaurusx•about 20 hours ago
To be clear, no ads. I might have a donation link just to cover hosting costs, but I'm not trying to extract money out of this. I have a full time job for that. This is just an art project.
scosman•about 20 hours ago
yeah, it's X that has ads. Which is why they wouldn't be as receptive as HN.
zahlman•about 18 hours ago
I don't mean to discourage you, and it's great that you've gotten that support; but I don't understand what purpose this serves. I had understood that Nitter exists exactly because of the forces that would make X leadership tend not to like its existence. HN is already not trying to sell things or make the interface obnoxious for logged-out users, and it makes very responsible use of JavaScript; what is there to filter out?
sillysaurusx•about 18 hours ago
No discouragement taken :) Thanks for the question.

Some people have asked for a "No AI" version of HN. That's one possibility.

Another possibility is to just stop cloning comments, so that only the articles are mirrored, and then launch the site. There would be few comments, but that might be a feature. I sometimes miss when HN was small.

A third is to AI-generate the comments. That way it's like https://reddit.com/r/subsimulatorgpt2.

anigbrowl•about 21 hours ago
Then again HN doesn't have ad revenue to protect, and you can only spend Karma at a limited number of retailers.
DANmode•about 20 hours ago
Hacker News custom apps don’t threaten the revenue the parent (YC) makes.
smalltorch•about 22 hours ago
Is it available? Would like to peek around, I also made a clone. There are lots of little details about the HN ui that were difficult to get just right.
sillysaurusx•about 21 hours ago
Oh no way, a fellow HN cloning nerd! Hi!

You’re absolutely right. It’s taken almost daily work from April till now, but I finally have almost everything. Navigation links were particularly tricky. I’d love to see yours too.

Right now it’s running locally on my laptop, but I plan to deploy it to https://news.ycombinator.lol soon. I was gonna make AI generated comments but the API costs are pretty high.

Source is fully available: https://github.com/shawwn/sharc

I started with arc 3.2, which is ancient, and implemented every missing feature one by one until I’ve mostly run out. https://github.com/shawwn/sharc/tree/main/docs/agents/handof... shows a chronological journal of the whole process.

Is yours up somewhere? Would love to compare notes.

EDIT: Here's a side by side screenshot:

HN Simulator: https://i.imgur.com/iZk5ypK.png

HN: https://i.imgur.com/ZocuK0L.png

It's fun to tab back and forth and look at the diffs.

datadrivenangel•about 21 hours ago
hackernews clone but all the comments are AI would be kinda funny.
ButlerianJihad•about 21 hours ago
Creating a clone is basically violating all copyrights of every commenter and contributor here on Hacker News. We could all get together and inundate you with DMCA takedown for our Intellectual Property. We still retain copyright and all rights to our User Content, while we've granted YC a non-exclusive license to it. Scraping and cloning is also a violation of HN's TOS.

https://www.ycombinator.com/legal/

It's not your content, and you're cheating us all!

krapp•about 21 hours ago
I used to contribute to Anarki but the lack of any reasonable error reporting made it insufferable, and I don't want to learn enough about compiler design and Racket to get a stack trace working. Good to see people are still working on Arc forks.
all2•about 20 hours ago
I also made a clone. I haven't touched it in months. I was going to put it on one of my domains and decided not to until I can sort out moderation and all that. I'm not sure I want to be on the hook for moderating a forum full time.
RealityVoid•about 21 hours ago
I would like for things to be so, but these platforms relief on you being on their platform, hooked on their algorithms, delivering them data. They need this in order to make money. HN is not monetized like this, so of course they're more lax. But I don't expect this to be possible for many other social media sites.
Markoff•about 21 hours ago
On related note I really like serializer.io to read HN (I disable other sites it supports) in chronological order and have it synced across multiple devices under unique URL
sillysaurusx•about 15 hours ago
Thank you for pointing out https://serializer.io. I hadn't heard of it.
GeoAtreides•about 20 hours ago
you're infringing HN users' copyright (and possible other rights as well), as they haven't granted you a license to copy, store and republish their content
sillysaurusx•about 20 hours ago
Some further analysis that argues this is fair use: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49440395

There's also going to be an opt-out feature: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49439657

8note•about 20 hours ago
they certainly havr given that license

otherwise my browser could not make reproductions and store caches

GeoAtreides•about 20 hours ago
they have granted a licence to HN (and YC-affiliated companies), not anyone else. It's that licence that permits HN, and HN only, to send users' content to your browser
Melatonic•about 20 hours ago
Didn't realise everything I posted online was copyrighted by default
TheBicPen•about 20 hours ago
Any creative work you create is copyrighted by default as soon as it is recorded onto some medium, at least in the US. https://www.copyright.gov/what-is-copyright/
everdrive•about 2 hours ago
Whether or not it came to legal notices, these sorts of "use technology to make the other technology less-bad" tactics are always temporary games of cat-and-mouse. Fine in the short term, but not something that offers a full, stable replacement.
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maelito•about 8 hours ago
Once upon a time I used Twitter's API to scan for tweets that were talking about a particular Wikipedia page. Doing semantic analysis, I did insert the tweets in the right place of the page. I did it as a student, using the free API. Twitter was the open, technically respected network with a great engineering blog. Now it's a political project to elect the extreme-right in Europe.
roryirvine•about 4 hours ago
"The world's town square", where everyone could gather and see what was going on.

And, for more than a decade, it appeared to work pretty well. Governments, media outlets, public-facing services of all kinds came to rely on it as their main way to talk to the public.

But now it's impossible to use without a login, most of that value has been lost.

The best thing to do is to learn from what happened, and not allow a proprietary platform to become so central again.

swed420•about 4 hours ago
> The best thing to do is to learn from what happened, and not allow a proprietary platform to become so central again.

In the spirit of that, here's some brainstorming:

https://www.noemamag.com/the-last-days-of-social-media/

throw0101a•about 6 hours ago
> Once upon a time I used Twitter's API

Once upon a time Twitter used to have RSS/Atom feeds for each account.

* https://www.seroundtable.com/twitter-rss-depreciated-16973.h...

dansquizsoft•about 5 hours ago
Just Europe?
inigyou•about 4 hours ago
At the moment.
mnls•about 22 hours ago
Nitter is a great project, way lighter than using Twitter and gets the job done if you want to check few accounts. I have a list of 30 accounts that I'm checking with Nitter and it's absolutely fantastic for this. Oh well, I guess I'll live without following those accounts.
yubblegum•about 21 hours ago
Nitter permitted perusing of twitter (x-cremente) without being tracked by whoever has the keys to the backdoors to twitter. This is why nitter is being killed - it destroys the surveillance capability provided by twitter/x/musk to interested parties.
DaSHacka•about 18 hours ago
You can peruse Twitter with a VPN and see direct-linked post content while signed-out though, even Reddit doesn't let you do that.
encody•about 8 hours ago
I work out of cafes a lot, so I use a commercial VPN often. This means that I am unable to read Reddit. (Not to mention I have to pass two Cloudflare captchas on most other sites.)

If I can't use Xcancel, then I won't be able to read Twitter on the rare occasion I want to.

Strangely, as someone who is online a lot, I seem to be getting gradually cut off from other Internet users. HN is kind of the last survivor for me.

maipen•about 6 hours ago
You are replying on HN with an account. Just make an account on X if there's content you want to see.

We got used to something being free and open, doesn't mean this is how it should be.

Your_ID_Collect•about 4 hours ago
They collect your passport and facial scan for "security purposes" if they feel like it:

https://help.x.com/en/rules-and-policies/verification-policy

This must be Musk's "free speech absolutism".

encody•about 5 hours ago
Sorry to move the goalposts on you, but the specific feature whose elimination I am lamenting is anonymous, read-only access. HN still supports this. Making an account kind of defeats the purpose.
dschu•about 7 hours ago
From an XML feed when it was Twitter to cease and desist notices, when the „free speech absolutist“ takes over.

Oh, the irony. And so many people still look up to this snake oil salesman

ThouYS•about 22 hours ago
"The public town square" where you need an account to lurk
yubblegum•about 21 hours ago
It's a feature not a bug ..
yonran•about 17 hours ago
I just noticed a couple days ago that when I paste a tweet URL in claude.ai to ask to explain it, sonnet 5 knew to look it up in nitter and xcancel to get the tweet and its context automatically. Shutting down these aggregators allows twitter to drive a harder bargain with Anthropic and OpenAI directly. I wonder whether this was the impetus for the C&D.
dawnerd•about 16 hours ago
There’s still other ways the agents will figure out. They’re playing a whack a mole trying to stop bots but you really can’t have a site that shows a page to wide internet and also lock it down. It does seem they’re moving towards a login required to view anything kinda site. That’ll just kill their search ranking though
fsuts•about 7 hours ago
Did anyone see the recent X api price changes? A post with a url costs much more than a post without.

They actively penalise anyone leaving the walled garden and also the algorithm punishes such posts

seizethecheese•about 22 hours ago
Political stuff notwithstanding, I used to be an active X user with a large following, but stopped using it because I couldn't configure a client that reliably allowed me to 1) consume a non-algorithmic feed and 2) disable videos and photos in the feed. It's really quite a bummer to be forced into the engagement maximizing app.
runjake•about 21 hours ago
You bring up a lot of good points, so just some general tips for other readers.

> Political stuff notwithstanding

Don't follow people who post about politics and use muting and mute words liberally.

> consume a non-algorithmic feed

New-ish: Following -> Latest. As an aside, the supposed algorithm is on GitHub[1].

> disable videos and photos in the feed

uBlock or Control Panel for Twitter.

1. https://github.com/xai-org/x-algorithm

zuzululu•about 8 hours ago
same here, my videos and posts would hover close to a million on average. I covered europe mostly where I'm from and the happenings there.

After Nikita took over I found X to be significantly worse. They also realized paying people to repost viral videos wasn't drawing advertisers.

In fact one fo the reasons I think their algorithm is so bad now is because they lack advertisers (conversion on X remains the lowest out of all social media platforms) and have to rely on people paying for X premium who naturally wants to be seen and engage in echo chambers.

The real deal breaker for me is when X did not honor their freedom of speech philosophy and did not offer me protection when a certain European country got involved and became very aggressive that I had to leave.

stock_toaster•about 17 hours ago
Especially rich coming from X Corp, with their xAI-Bot web scrapers.
dlcarrier•about 13 hours ago
I didn't get much use out of XCancel, because it usually assumed I was a bot and refused to show me the page.

It's web scrapers with anti-scraping filters, all the way down.

jwilk•about 10 hours ago
I had the same experience with XCancel, but nitter.net worked for me.
j1elo•about 18 hours ago
Is there any jurisdiction where Nitter instances could be hosted while inconvenient Cease and Desist letters were... let's put it this way, rendered useless?
MYEUHD•about 16 hours ago
There's an instance served over TOR, I'm not sure if it's up, but that's a convenient way to render C&D letters useless

https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/wiki/Instances#tor

mvlipwig•about 18 hours ago
If piracy sites are a good indicator of locales that let you hide from American lawyers, then probably Russia
tarpitt•about 17 hours ago
nitter.rdrama.net is still up
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nunez•about 19 hours ago
Okay, fine; no more X then.

I need to start preparing for Redlib to meet the same fate, as this god-damned site will be the only other site I care about on the Internet left once that happens.

fauchletenerum•about 16 hours ago
At first I thought Redlib was a pejorative term for how left-leaning Reddit is
Ugvx•about 19 hours ago
I was part way through setting up both redlib and bitter on my homelab when this hit. Every app I have used, every plugin, they all get stopped. Was hoping a web proxy would be the final solution.

Also add newpipe/YouTube proxies to the list. I miss the free and open internet

hoshi73•about 17 hours ago
It's insane that their sign-up process now requires a phone number to complete on the web, and even basic features like playing a video in a tweet recently stopped working on x.com without an account. (In the past, searching for tweets, looking at an account's entire timeline, etc., never required logging in at all.)
knowaveragejoe•about 11 hours ago
So where are the alternative instances popping up left and right? I thought the internet would detect a problem and route around it.
cbeach•about 17 hours ago
It's not insane if you're trying to build a social network without bots and foreign interference.
jdiff•about 17 hours ago
But Twitter has and embraces that. The bots are all verified. Go on any tweet that mentions crypto or "my friends account got hacked" and dive into the deep well of hidden tweets.

Hiding tweets for users without accounts does absolutely nothing for either of those goals.

cbeach•about 17 hours ago
X.com makes it nearly impossible to run bot accounts, with its phone number per account requirement, and the astronomical fees for using its API.

Twitter, by comparison, was trivially easy to run bots on. I ran many automated Twitter accounts (for legit purposes). I had to shut them all down when Musk bought Twitter.

a2ff6eeb0•about 13 hours ago
Twitter's removal of messages based on foreign government requests went up massively after the Musk takeover.
antibarbarus•about 10 hours ago
I've been using XCancel to retrieve posts of an account via RSS, only posting vintage photos from my hometown. It was a small convenience, but I guess that's over. I'll never get what keeps people tethered to it.
giamma•about 4 hours ago
Possible alternative? https://twitterwebviewer.com/
VCFundedGenYer•about 21 hours ago
Move to the fediverse or die. Twitter has been irrelevant for nearly a decade now.
tofuahdude•about 21 hours ago
Objectively untrue, unfortunately.
xigoi•about 19 hours ago
You can’t move to “the fediverse”, only a specific instance.
notthemessiah•about 19 hours ago
Looks like data/account portability is in the works: https://swicg.github.io/activitypub-data-portability/lola

But at ATProto/Bluesky, account portability was a consideration from the start.

dlcarrier•about 13 hours ago
Email has federated pretty reliably. Granted, it's nearly impossible to host your own server, because the rest will automatically assume you are only sending spam, but the well-known servers all federate quite nicely. Worst case scenario is that some organizations put a footer on outside messages warning that it's not internal.
xigoi•about 8 hours ago
Federation is much easier when you only need to see messages explicitly sent to you, rather than aggregate content from all over the world.
alightsoul•about 11 hours ago
They mean start posting, viewing and interacting in it.
Gareth321•about 8 hours ago
The fediverse is 90% left wing authoritarians who won't hesitate to send death threats if you disagree with Russia's actions in Ukraine, or China's actions re ethnic cleansing and Uyghurs.

I love the idea of the fediverse and tried really hard to make it work, but the community is comprised almost entirely of people who were so extreme that they've been banned from other social media platforms.

slashdave•about 17 hours ago
You forgot the /sarcasm
rvz•about 17 hours ago
> Twitter has been irrelevant for nearly a decade now.

False.

X was supposed to die by now, its never been more alive.

In fact "Which instance?" is the reason why the fediverse died.

krapp•about 17 hours ago
Rumors of the death of the fediverse have been greatly exaggerated. I'm following a vibrant community of nerds, creators, writers, game developers and interesting people on Mastodon right now, and there are numerous other platforms on the fediverse as well, with their own communities. Lots of people have been able to decide on one or more instances for themselves. I don't know why it's such an intractable problem for HN.
dawnerd•about 16 hours ago
The people that act like the fediverse died never really used to begin with. Or they’re the kind of people that expect to be able to blast out marketing posts and get instant feedback.

My mastodon feed is really busy with way higher quality posts than I had back in the twitter days. Less spam too.

Havoc•about 19 hours ago
And twitters gotten increasing aggressive in forcing you to download the app and log in

Irritates me every time there is a hn link to tiwtter

fedpost•about 19 hours ago
Everyone seems to be these days. Reddit has gotten much more militant over the last month or two
orange999•about 18 hours ago
Twitter's been the worst about forcing you to log in.

Before Elon, Twitter would give him some login reminders roughly every 5-10 minutes if you viewed the site while logged out. It was a little annoying, but it wasn't that bad, and you could get rid of the reminder by just clicking the x button.

Now, under Elon, they force you to login to read any replies to posts. Currently, a person's 5 most recent posts can be viewed without an account, but none of the replies can be.

Reddit is now forcing people to login to view old Reddit. IIRC, old Reddit is posts that are from before 2009 or something like that. It's not that important of a loss in the grand scheme of things, but it might be the first step towards making the entire Reddit website login only.

DimmieMan•about 17 hours ago
"but it might be the first step towards making the entire Reddit website login only."

They're A/B testing that already. Mobiles more well known but the desktop version was unusable without logging in for the last couple weeks.

dan-robertson•about 18 hours ago
I thought old Reddit was about the old UI, not the age of the posts?
DaSHacka•about 18 hours ago
> Reddit is now forcing people to login to view old Reddit. IIRC, old Reddit is posts that are from before 2009 or something like that. It's not that important of a loss in the grand scheme of things, but it might be the first step towards making the entire Reddit website login only.

It would have taken like 30 seconds for you to verify that this isn't correct. "Old reddit" is old.reddit.com, and is the old/original UI of the site. It has nothing to do with actual post age. If you visit any thread on Reddit, and replace the "www.reddit.com" with "old.reddit.com", you get the old reddit UI.

This UI is seen by many as much better than the current atrocious UI with the god-ugly ""snoos"", ads, "similar posts", and other cruft most of us don't want. They now require a login to use the debloated UI, as well as attempting to view any comments/threads over a VPN (even on new reddit).

At least Twitter lets you see the original post, even over a VPN (only hiding replies while logged-out), Reddit hits you with an obnoxious "woah there pardner! slow ur heckin horses down!" snoo image preventing you from seeing anything of the thread.

It annoys me to no end, as so many technical questions and support threads are now gated behind this restriction.

Twitter meanwhile, has little of value other than ragebait anyway.

Oh, and you could only save a Reddit thread with the old reddit link on the Wayback Machine. The regular www reddit links have JS required to fetch the contents of the thread, so every thread got saved as an empty page.

It's been that way for over like 3-4 years at this point, unless they've fixed it now that they've kneecapped old reddit (assuming it wasn't intentional in the first place).

solarkraft•about 23 hours ago
This is ultimately X’s problem. Remove the ways to consume its content, remove its relevance.

If at all, people should only fully quote content or post screenshots now.

Funes-•about 17 hours ago
Look, we should make a concerted effort—a huge one, I know—to strip away all that is potentially of value in X, and through pulling and separating it from the whole, establishing dignified alternatives to every single one of them.

Here's what X does "well":

- Witness media/citizen journalism.

- Text publishing (narrowed down to short-form and very opinion-based, but still).

- Link sharing (there are TONS of links to great pieces of media; the vast majority of posts containing links to pirated content are never removed).

- Self-promotion (art, video games, software, etc.).

Now, imagine all of these facets turned into dignified, decentralized, and uncensorable platforms or protocols. It might sound like wishful thinking or some kind of utopian aspiration, but I really think we're fighting a battle for Internet freedom RIGHT NOW. What we do in the next two to five years will establish how much of it we'll get to keep in the long term, because there might be no turning back.

adrian17•about 17 hours ago
> does „well”

> art

Small pushback here: it (and bluesky too) is absolutely atrocious for art, at least as a consumer. Once in a while I stumble upon an artist who only posts their drawings on twitter/bsky, and it’s pretty much impossible to browse their historical works because the „media” tab is just an infinite scroll without any organization; and that’s assuming they don’t also post 10 photos of their cat or other life updates in between their art.

It’s obviously still popular for posting art for many other reasons (I just dislike putting „X”, „art” and „does well” in the same sentence). So IMO the replacements - and lots of these use cases already gave replacements! - struggle simply because of network effects, not their inherent quality.

Funes-•about 17 hours ago
This is why I wrote "well" in quotation marks and used expressions like "potentially of value". You missed the whole point.
kelvinjps10•about 23 hours ago
I would literally stop opening twitter links, for me the utility of twitter is not having an account, but sometimes certain projects or governments and businesses use it for announcements. Before Musk put the login only for seeing tweets and comments, I would use regular twitter and when they did that I switched to nitter. (I had an account for some time but it was a complete was of time)
joshdavham•about 17 hours ago
Regardless of the outcome, I’m very thankful for xcancel and all the excellent work they’ve done.

I wish them the best in the legal fight!

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skybrian•about 21 hours ago
Contrast with Bluesky, where the firehoses will give you an archive of everything, every post signed by the original account, for better or worse.
bromuro•about 18 hours ago
https://xcancel.com is down too.
Artoooooor•about 22 hours ago
Remember, corporations may scrap you but you cannot scrap them.
inatreecrown2•about 17 hours ago
X is really a bad joke with their "Public Town Square".

"Gated Community" is a much better description, but I guess that doesn't sound so cool.

Nemo_bis•about 9 hours ago
Nitter accepts donations at https://liberapay.com/zedeus
metalcrow•about 23 hours ago
Anyone familiar with the legal reasons Twitter might be able to prevent sites like nitter from working? I believe scraping is legal but I'm sure there are details that make this different
zedeus•about 23 hours ago
From the letter(s):

> X has documentary evidence that you are scraping X Data, circumventing X’s API access controls and rate limits, accessing X using X accounts and session tokens in violation of X’s rules, and republishing X Data to the public. X’s Terms of Service, Developer Agreement, and Developer Policy strictly forbid such conduct. See https://x.com/en/tos (“[C]rawling or scraping the Services in any form . . . is expressly prohibited.”). By your own description, Nitter “uses Twitter’s unofficial API” and routes all requests through your servers, and requires operators to supply real X accounts to function.

> Your actions constitute a flagrant breach of the contractual and legal obligations you agreed to when accessing the X services. Your actions also violate various state and federal laws, including, but not limited to, the Texas Harmful Access by Computer Act (§ 143.001 and § 33.02) and the Lanham Act (15 U.S.C. §§ 1114, 1125).

xigoi•about 19 hours ago
Ironic that the company calling itself “the public town square” is complaining about someone making their content public.
1284715•about 22 hours ago
I wonder how xAI steals its AI training material! Of course no scraping is involved!1!!

They stole the Nitter code too of course without attribution. Does SpaceX really want to go into this?

metalcrow•about 22 hours ago
Ah, TOS violations. I believe those may not hold up in court well from the limited amount I recall in previous cases, but IANAL
fg137•about 22 hours ago
Is this comparable to LinkedIn scraping?
hollow-moe•about 22 hours ago
That's a lot of unknowns, I doubt this text can actually hold in a court of law
orange999•about 22 hours ago
A similar case Musk filed against an Israeli data scraping firm already got laughed out of court.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/musks-x-corp-loses-lawsuit-aga...

But I guess the nitter owner doesn't want to take any chances until he actually gets a court ruling in his favor.

zolla•about 22 hours ago
if i understand correctly, in Meta v. Bright Data, the court ruled that brightdata was allowed to scrape public profiles because the user is unauthenticated. thus I do not believe that precedent is in favor of nitter currently
docheinestages•about 7 hours ago
This is only a problem because people keep using X. Just stop.
franczesko•about 11 hours ago
There still are alternatives. I don't plan to create an account on X anytime soon. Platformized Internet sucks.
jwilk•about 11 hours ago
What are they?
alightsoul•about 11 hours ago
Bluesky and mastodon
jwilk•about 10 hours ago
I thought we were talking about alternative ways to read Twitter.

Alternative microblogging services are not of any help to me, because nobody (that I wanted to read) posts there.

w-ll•about 16 hours ago
The other day in the bay there was an amber alert. it had a bit.ly link which opened up twitter (or i guess x) app. that wouldnt let me see the alert unless i logged in.
monneyboi•about 8 hours ago
If we all move to Bluesky, we break Elon's power over the microblogging ecosystem.

Sure, Bluesky isn't perfect, but at least we can try to make it so.

What are you waiting for?

rplnt•about 8 hours ago
Companies, celebrities, media, even state agencies all post (only) on Twitter. At least the last one is a shame, but there's a good excuse about reach.
Gareth321•about 8 hours ago
Bluesky's community is more toxic than X has ever been. I'd rather hang out on 4chan.
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thataccount•about 17 hours ago
Elon was more or less made in environments where the informational flow was free. I'm not sure what he thinks he's doing with all this.
userbinator•about 11 hours ago
It's likely not him directly, but the big legal teams of lawyers that need things to do.
suddenlybananas•about 23 hours ago
It's hardly unique to Twitter but it's so frustrating how much "content" online requires an account. Whenever my friends send me something on Instagram or TikTok or a restaurant puts their menu on Instagram, I'm barraged with a thousand dark patterns forcing me to log in. Even Reddit is doing it now. I do wonder how much of this is to boost engagement versus another "wonderful" side effect from LLMs since they need training data.
jackb4040•about 22 hours ago
The other day someone on here gave me a useful framing. Non-publicly accessible sites are the dark web. If a project told you they were moving all their docs and support to the dark web they would sound crazy, but if they say they're moving it to discord (the same thing) then it's fine.
itintheory•about 21 hours ago
>the dark web

I prefer the older term "deep web" [1]. It's mentioned in Wikipedia that the terms are used as synonyms now, but I think it's important to differentiate between sites behind login/authentication/etc, and sites that are still openly accessible, albeit over Tor, i2p, etc.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_web

xigoi•about 19 hours ago
> Whenever my friends send me something on Instagram or TikTok

Reply with a screenshot showing that you can’t view the content.

> a restaurant puts their menu on Instagram

Don’t go there. Plenty of other restaurants to choose from. They just lost a customer due to their hostility.

TaLiTr•about 3 hours ago
> Don’t go there. Plenty of other restaurants to choose from. They just lost a customer due to their hostility.

This is a wild take to me. Around here pretty much nobody posts their menu online on any website, the technical literacy is just quite poor. If you limited yourself to places that did, you'd only get big fast-food chains.

alightsoul•about 11 hours ago
That customer is the exception because most are signed in all the time
skinfaxi•about 22 hours ago
I think we will see the internet closed off more and more as AI usage grows.
duskwuff•about 23 hours ago
Twitter was doing stupid growth hacks, like requiring login to view replies, even before AI scrapers were a concern. (And I suspect many of the scrapers are just using logged-in accounts.)
dylan604•about 23 hours ago
> before AI scrapers were a concern

didn't the scrapers scrape everything well before concerns were raised. were the concerns raised after the LLMs were released and then people realized what happened? so, forcing logins just closed the barn door after the horses got out.

kelvinjps10•about 23 hours ago
libredirect is very good for these kinda of things. But the platforms keep trying to make it stop working so is a constant battle of the frontents to build workarounds
micromacrofoot•about 23 hours ago
It's tracking and data harvesting, always is
deng•about 7 hours ago
PSA: You can follow any Twitter account on Mastodon via `<account>@bird.makeup`.
aquir•about 8 hours ago
What a shame, I've used the Twitter/X -> RSS quite a lot to follow accounts.
tolerance•about 23 hours ago
In the grand scheme of things I think that this is good.
ActorNightly•about 23 hours ago
Its bad, but in the end nobody really cares that much about what is good or bad.
tolerance•about 23 hours ago
From a legal perspective, I can guess why you think it's bad. But aside from some legitimate use cases (apparently some towns and cities only issue announcements on X, really?) if you hate the platform itself so much but still feel compelled to check out content there then this may be a great opportunity for freedom and growth.
doc_ick•about 18 hours ago
Not op, but my concern was always the town, cities, govt updates only notifying through twitter and no where else. I’d love to have an rss feed directly for reach but they just holed out for Twitter and that’s it.
koe123•about 11 hours ago
Did we ever figure out fully decentralized hosting? I.e. nodes so small they cannot sustainably cease and desist?
alightsoul•about 11 hours ago
The fediverse and at protocol come to mind but every fediverse server has unique content
int32_64•about 20 hours ago
old reddit and nitter finished in the span of a month? What an incredible month to be undistracted.
delecti•about 19 hours ago
What changed about old reddit?
skiddude•about 19 hours ago
They force you to login with an account
nunez•about 19 hours ago
I was able to visit old just now...
DoctorOetker•about 15 hours ago
If the courts consider these cease and desist orders authoritatively valid, does that mean all notary services are under threat?
segmondy•about 17 hours ago
Folks need to learn to start putting such projects outside of the reach of US. Put it in an "unfriendly" country where the C&D means nothing.
skiddude•about 19 hours ago
They have archived the nitter repo :( [1]

[1]: https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/

exploraz•about 6 hours ago
... and now it isn't as I'm writing this
exploraz•about 5 hours ago
... for pushing a commit.

Disregard. Now it's archived again

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wassup_m8•about 17 hours ago
A still-working Nitter instance here: https://nitter.rdrama.net
nubinetwork•about 20 hours ago
I thought nitter shut down a year or two ago? I've been using xcancel, thinking they've been running on the old codebase...
jwilk•about 11 hours ago
frollogaston•about 18 hours ago
Same, nitter never worked for me.
strenholme•about 15 hours ago
This is part of the enshittification of social media: Places which used to be open for anyone to read, logged in or not, have become walled gardens, where you can only read the content if you log in, allowing the social network to use browser fingerprinting to track you, even if you erase all cookies.

Of course, the content on Twitter/X has gone down the toilet. While I am anything but “woke” (you can my posts defending RMS from the “woke mob” a few years ago), having a lot of content showing a random <<person in group Twitter posters don’t like>> committing a crime, and none of the comments letting us know when and where the incident in question happened (and, back when anyone could ask Grok where a given incident happened, it would invariably be something that happened five years ago or eight years ago), but a lot of comments going full Stormfront, saying that’s how all people in <<group they are bigoted against>> act.

Nitter was useful for archiving threads on Twitter/X, since it’s not possible to archive the same threads when they are directly on X. Even though anyone sensible has left Twitter/X, I will miss being able to archive the kind of content (as much as it is garbage) that is on X.

Banditoz•about 23 hours ago
A lot of instances are showing rate limited too.
refactorAbraxas•about 22 hours ago
It was only a matter of time before they got in the way of someone committing a crime under the pretense of power.
tyjen•about 22 hours ago
Explains why the various links were suggesting to use different instances today. Surprised it lasted this long.
alex1138•about 17 hours ago
This thing of needing to log in to view public pages needs to die

It's not "security". You know it's not. I feel like Facebook started the whole thing in their desperate attempt to get more users (while simultaneously screwing around with privacy settings on posts). It's incredibly widespread (I refuse to sign up for Instagram)

"Scraping" isn't an argument (LLMs for example) either

The leadership of these companies, are incredibly ethically bankrupt

alightsoul•about 10 hours ago
By making it login only, every potential user is turned into a sellable asset. And you convince the courts that it's a password restricted website so you "breached" authorization or something
tlogan•about 15 hours ago
I do not know if xcancel is going to survive this :(

As far as I understand, people use XCancel because they do not like X (and Elon) so do not want to give money or traffic to X. But they still want to read and share content posted there.

The added value of XCancel is they are not owned by Elon Musk.

Am I correct here?

dlcarrier•about 11 hours ago
Getting around Twitter's blocking of non-logged-in accounts predates Musk's purchase of Twitter. I don't know the specifics of XCancel, but the niche existed beforehand.
informal007•about 15 hours ago
A dump question, can we use Internet Archive for that?
raver1975•about 13 hours ago
Someone should make a Twitter competitor.
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paulnpace•about 21 hours ago
Without a nitter instance, I simply won't see posts to X.

This seems predictable, so at least one goal is to reduce the reach of people posting on X.

LightBug1•about 6 hours ago
I appreciate xcancel to see things on HN or elsewhere ...

But really, is anyone still using SHITTER? ... holy fck ...

zem•about 17 hours ago
could we have a moratorium on twitter links here?
nottorp•about 11 hours ago
What I don't understand is why people insist on using a service when that service doesn't want them.

I mean, xcancel had bandwidth costs. Even if covered by donations, in what world does it make sense to pay to access twitter instead of moving your business elsewhere?

You'll say the "content creators" are there. Would they stay if they run out of viewers?

Melatonic•about 20 hours ago
Is XCancel separate ? They have a page up as well
orange999•about 19 hours ago
XCancel is a different website, but they just put up a notice literally a few minutes ago saying that they're also shutting down until they get legal advice. For the past few hours, xcancel had been marginally functional (constantly giving you an error message if you tried more than 2 or 3 searches at a time), but now the website is down altogether.

Twitterwebviewer is still up, but I always preferred nitter and xcancel. And I wouldn't be surprised if twitterwebviewer also goes offline in the next day or two.

skiddude•about 19 hours ago
It is a fork of Nitter, they've also shut down due to the C&D[1]

[1]:https://xcancel.com

utopiah•about 23 hours ago
Sad for the project but unsurprising knowing how much SpaceX (sigh) relies on xAI which it mostly a shelf for a neocloud bootstrapped precisely from Twitter/X as a dataset. I imagine they will legally fight to close as much as possible in order to make it look like a valuable dataset that is exclusive.
numpad0•about 23 hours ago
xcancel.com still works. Isn't that sus?
dawnerd•about 23 hours ago
xcancel worked even when nitter had problems before. I imagine they're running a fairly custom version of nitter now with their own workarounds.

Edit: I see it's not working either "Instance has been rate limited"

Barbing•about 22 hours ago
Might help that XCancel hotlinks media (pbs.twimg[.]com), should be a huge bandwidth reduction.
yubblegum•about 18 hours ago
That actually leaked tracking back to twitter which is really the entire point of something like nitter. xcancel.com was always my last choice after nitter.net and nitter.poast.org. nitter.net was the only one without callbacks for scripts and media back to panopticon.
orange999•about 22 hours ago
Right now, I can do about two searches on xcancel before it gives me the "instances have been rate limited" message. Then if I completely close out of my web browser, clear my web history from the last hour, and go back into my web browser, I can do another one or two searches, before xcancel again gives me that message about ""instances have been rate limited".

In theory I can still read the same things I could read before on xcancel by doing an endless cycle of doing one or two searches, then closing out of my web browser and clearing history, and then going back to xcancel and doing another search or two. But certainly that process is very annoying.

Now, I'm not 100% sure if this is related to Musk's cease and desist letter. I've run into this problem or similar technical problems about twice a month before when using XCancel. Usually the technical problem is resolved within 2 or 3 hours and I can use xcancel normally again. So I guess I'll check back in a few hours and see if I can use xcancel normally again.

Edit: Xcancel is working perfectly if you first go to somebody's X profile, and then you turn the x in the url to xcancel. For example, here is Elon Musk's profile on xcancel, where you can still view Elon's tweets, Elon's replies, and the replies that people have made to Elon's tweets.

https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/with_replies

XCancel still has a problem right now where I can only make a few searches on the xcancel website itself before it tells me I'm rate limited, and I have to sign out of the browser and sign back in before I can make searches on xcancel again.

However, I occasionally have had this problem on xcancel even before today. And I'd assume that this probably isn't related to the cease and desist letter. If this was due to the cease and desist letter, I'd assume that xcancel would be completely down right now rather than having limited functionality.

sillysaurusx•about 22 hours ago
Make it easy on yourself and just use Tor. Clearing everything is a matter of clicking on "new tor circuit for site".

Some sites throw annoying captchas your way though.

pessimizer•about 17 hours ago
You're doing voodoo. It's not you that's being rate limited, it's xcancel itself that is being rate limited. If you wait a few moments and reload, things will likely work.

Although now I should say that this was the truth yesterday, but now twitter seems to be actively killing the credentials that nitter instances are using, and they're returning rate limit messages permanently. My guess is that this is a function of how many credentials/tokens a nitter instance was cycling through to get content x the amount of traffic that nitter instance gets. They probably just set the rate-limiting bans longer for everybody (or steadily increase them on each offense), instead of trying to find the specific offending credentials.

edit: xcancel officially gone, so none of this matters.

duckmysick•about 17 hours ago
Not anymore. Here's what shows on their page:

> On Monday 24th August at 8PM EST, we received at letter from X Corp. asking to cease and desist the service XCancel. The service XCancel is stopped until further notice. We are seeking legal advice and won't share more details for now. Thank you for the trust you have put in these two years of XCancel.

delecti•about 19 hours ago
Seems that xcancel.com is down now as well. Maybe they got C&D'd a bit later, or maybe they just took a bit longer to respond to the same notice.
senderista•about 16 hours ago
well I guess I won't be reading anything on that hellsite anymore
dredmorbius•about 22 hours ago
Note that the frequently-used workaround for regwalled Twitter content posted to G+, xcancel.com, is itself a Nitter instance.

HN mods may wish to take notice.

trompetenaccoun•about 16 hours ago
First Instagram and Facebook, then Reddit, now Twitter. This is the new normal, paywalls and walled gardens everywhere. Not to get started on quickly increasing nation-state censorship and trail blazers such as China with the entirety of their national web locked down already.
rustcleaner•about 16 hours ago
We move to the fediverse, hyphanet, etc, and leave the normies in the slop shops. We build a high information quality environment for us which is not easily centralize-able or lockin-able, and eventually the slop shops fall due to the lack of our high quality communications. Enshittification will ensure the slop shops' ultimate failure in their futures.
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tesnorindian•about 14 hours ago
Xcancel was my only window to X.com which I prefer for our hyperlocal news. With the mainstream media not covering hyperlocal news I am now denied a freedom access to our hyperlocal content. It is a shame that we are denied freedom access to content in this AI slop era.
Trung0246•about 17 hours ago
In the meanwhile for anyone that have android, use QuaX (still requires account)
avadodin•about 17 hours ago
Just saying but a tor hidden service to access Twitter would be nicer than possibly having your behavior tracked by people who don’t care much about laws(I mean the unofficial ones) and I suppose the liabilities for a third party providing a proxy to that content on the open web for convenience(and or tracking) would be significantly reduced.
abustamam•about 17 hours ago
I have a Twitter account and even then I use xcancel and such because Twitter signed me out one time and then i couldn't read replies to tweets without being signed in, and I really hate being nagged to get a shitty app or sign in just to read some stuff.

I donated to xcancel because id rather support that than pay for Twitter blue or whatever.

huebnerob•about 16 hours ago
Sad, if inevitable.
erulabs•about 23 hours ago
The open web is dead. The open web remains dead. And we have killed it.

I'm actually much less anti-Musk than the average HN commentator but it should be universally agreed here that a small handful of mega-corp websites dominating the majority of content on the web is a bad thing. Nitter was hardly a solution. Federated platforms like Mastodon and Bluesky are "culturally" closed, and "free speech" platforms like X are "technically" closed.

IMO we all need to start vibe coding PHP bulletin boards again. 'RETVRN' etc.

alde•about 22 hours ago
> Federated platforms like Mastodon and Bluesky are "culturally" closed

What does the even mean if you can host your own

gs17•about 22 hours ago
Hosting your own doesn't really matter if it just means you're on a social network with one user.
dokyun•about 21 hours ago
Lots of people run single-user instances.
dokyun•about 21 hours ago
Nothing, fedi is extremely anarchic by design. If you don't like a server you can move to a different one, or start your own. The big Mastodon servers put in a great deal of effort to police what their users can see and interact with (see FediBlock), but it's impossible to shut certain people or groups out of the network entirely. It's a double-edged sword, but it's a net good for the kind of network it was intended to be, which is a hacker's network; it wasn't designed for normies.
kg•about 22 hours ago
Maybe they're referring to defederation? It's quite common on Mastodon as I understand it, due to disagreements on things like moderation between server operators.
gdulli•about 22 hours ago
What does it even mean, period? MAGA losers are free to establish a community on Bluesky, the only difference between that and Twitter is that Bluesky isn't built to optimize for ragebait and culture war fighting. But they can still socialize among themselves on Bluesky even if no one else wants anything to do with them.
redeeman•about 22 hours ago
the problem here is, that a large large group of people do want something "to do with them" (and "them" not just being "maga losers"), but that for NORMAL users that sign up and use bluesky, there are others who choose that they must not socialize with them.

normal people dont understand how they can join specific communities or instances or whatever it is on the specific platform, they want something like "twitter" and then thats where they are, they dont want "some weird twitter instance thats not the main one"

jackb4040•about 22 hours ago
If we reflect on the debate from years ago about whether to nationalize Twitter, all the downsides we were warned about have come true. They censor / promote whoever the state wants anyways, the CEOs was literally in the cabinet for a time, but now they also have to enshittify and degrade the experience for the benefit of an also-ran AI lab.
qzx_pierri•about 18 hours ago
All of the downsides you listed started with Jack Dorsey, and were significantly improved once Musk took over. X/Twitter still has its issues, though.

I’d tell you to check out the “Twitter Files”, but it seems Wikipedia has been completely compromised. And I’m hesitant to recommend you read about it on Grokipedia (you’ll assume there is major bias), but it does seem to be the most accurate retelling of the scandal that I can find online. Here are both though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_Files https://grokipedia.com/page/Twitter_Files Censorship-wise… Twitter was worse than Reddit at its peak (before being bought).

areoform•about 18 hours ago
You can read the talk page yourself. Wikipedia's editors are annoying and impossible to work with, but their obsessions are weighted towards the truth. And while some editors have acted in bad faith for smaller articles; articles like that are generally treated with as much good faith as possible.
mmooss•about 18 hours ago
> significantly improved once Musk took over

At a certain point it's just words; what makes those meaningful? Musk bans and limits distribution for people he dislikes or who criticize him, intentionally directs hate mobs, promotes hate and disinformation, ...

jrflowers•about 21 hours ago
> IMO we all need to start vibe coding PHP bulletin boards again. 'RETVRN' etc.

The most recent release of phpbb was 2 months ago

iamnothere•about 20 hours ago
And it’s still having critical security vulns after 26 years
jrflowers•about 20 hours ago
Can’t get a CVE if every anonymously generated slop forum is different
_ink_•about 23 hours ago
They still work just fine, people need to use them instead of the drugs they get force fed by mega corps.
TiredOfLife•about 21 hours ago
What does a site stealing content has to do with open web?
mmooss•about 22 hours ago
> "free speech" platforms like X are "technically" closed.

Musk boots off and/or limits distribution of people he disagrees with. I can't fathom how you think that's 'free speech' - it's the opposite.

> Federated platforms like Mastodon and Bluesky are "culturally" closed

I've heard that - what is your experience? Downvotes and exclusion? Are there more 'open' servers?

dokyun•about 21 hours ago
> I've heard that - what is your experience? Downvotes and exclusion? Are there more 'open' servers?

Fediverse has plenty of servers which are "free speech" adjacent, which most Mastodon servers close off since its easier for them to police what their users can see than let them do it themselves. The vast majority of them do not run the Mastodon software, and feel far more "wild west" with all the shitposters. But if you want to talk with actual hackers and are into that sort of thing, it's fun times.

orphereus•about 18 hours ago
Which servers are these fun ones? I would like to explore a bit.
emsign•about 22 hours ago
As long as people are using X and linking to it this pain will just go on. If you have an account there you will not notice how unusable it is for others. And that's by design.
g-b-r•about 22 hours ago
This means that you need to stop posting links to it anywhere, unless you attach to the link everything you find interesting about it (so the discussion too, if it's interesting).

Doing otherwise should be banned here.

delduca•about 18 hours ago
I had twitter since the beginning, it was a very nice place until Musk.
spiderfarmer•about 23 hours ago
Let a thousand Nitters bloom.
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gverrilla•about 14 hours ago
Great news, as twitter becomes less relevant everyday.
ElShmusk•about 10 hours ago
I wonder what bs reason he came up and out of his butt. Such a snowflake he is.
mmooss•about 17 hours ago
I wonder why X waited until now to send cease and desist letters. I assumed the issue was resolved somehow - maybe they were unenforceable - long ago.

I'm also surprised they don't already have their response prepared to this inevitable event, though maybe they are just seeking to fine-tune it.

vmnb•about 13 hours ago
s ot we dott comm
rvz•about 18 hours ago
Twitter / X was predicted to be dead / destroyed / shut down and completely taken offline.

It turns out that Twitter / X has never been more alive!

josefritzishere•about 19 hours ago
123a124•about 19 hours ago
xcancel.com is also displaying cease and desist now.

So you have to get an X account to get access to "your" own politicians. Similarly, on Truth Social hedge funds are paying $100,000 bribes to Trump for premium access (essentially frontrunning).

This is from the company (X is owned by xAI) that distilled OpenAI against the terms of service.

altcognito•about 17 hours ago
Wait until Musk discovers that without these additional services, people will care even less about what happens there.
overfeed•about 17 hours ago
Perhaps the ability to de-anonymize[1] users and algorithmically influence those remaining is more valuable to him than whatever ARPU is for Twitter, especially with significant elections coming up around thr world.

1. A lot of data vendors key information on phone numbers or email, that's why all rewards program are thirsty for it.

rustcleaner•about 17 hours ago
In response to this, we should push to directly tax Elon Musk's wealth. :^)
teekert•about 23 hours ago
Now I have no more ways to read Twitter... So, good?
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lrvick•about 20 hours ago
I have ignored many cease and desists from powerful entities, for years, with no problems. Call their bluff. They are almost always a baseless fear tactic.

If you guys are really going to stay down otherwise because you are worried, transfer ownership of the Nitter servers to me on paper and I will approve turning them back on and resume operations as usual.

I have zero problem telling Musk to fuck off. In court, if needed.

chews•about 18 hours ago
for all of elon's pratting on about crypto and open protocols for x to be a single reader application is insane. Wait the problem is AI scraping??!!? and yet Grok is hoovering the planet... what's good for me isn't good for you.
Markoff•about 21 hours ago
seems all instances except xcancel.com stopped working

https://status.d420.de

I left Twitter few years ago as active user, it was not really giving me anything in return for contribution, I was still passively reading few accounts I followed through Nitter and used also Nitter redirect for all Twitter links in news articles.

If Musk thinks by shutting down Nitter instances I will return to Twitter he could not be further from truth, it doesn't really provide me anything essential I would not find elsewhere. It's almost as Google thinking I will ever pay for Youtube premium, if adblockers would stop working.

riffic•about 22 hours ago
as a former (and the best) mod of the Twitter subreddit and having a well attuned sense for how this will all play out it seems that X will very soon be a defunct service. We've all seen these patterns play out before.

this wikipedia page will be there for that day:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_social_network...

wrtash•about 22 hours ago
It is absolutely silly how many people here deny the importance of X for at least journalism and politics. Musk isn't the only one on X.

There is a reason these Nitter based gateways exist. If you want to change it, come up with a better alternative.

To the people who say there are only "right wing" figures. Really?

https://x.com/maxblumenthal

https://x.com/richimedhurst

https://x.com/ryangrim

https://x.com/aoc

If you only read Musk and AI boosters, you may get a wrong impression.

tamimio•about 23 hours ago
Reminder that hosting your own won’t last long either if it got popular, as long as you don’t control your domain, you are always under the mercy of being shutdown.
helpprotactiniu•about 15 hours ago
does any one even use twitter any more? that place is a cesspool.
nixosbestos•about 22 hours ago
lol I'd say something about X, but man this place fooking loves X and it didn't go well last time. So, "oh nooooo".
12_throw_away•about 21 hours ago
I think it's less that "this place" loves X, more that there is a committed segment of folks with flagging privileges that really really like a certain South African business guy.
zahlman•about 6 hours ago
More accurately, there are people here who don't hate the guy with a burning passion, and find the rhetoric of those who do really, really obnoxious. Especially the persecution complex and the dark hinting.
kijashdkujdfhas•about 4 hours ago
He's a white supremacist, openly. He deserves the hate he gets.
fauchletenerum•about 16 hours ago
Tell your 5 followers on Bluesky about it?
ButlerianJihad•about 18 hours ago
EST, huh? Where is this poster located that they are in an Eastern Standard Time zone?
MBCook•about 18 hours ago
The US east coast?
nightpool•about 18 hours ago
No, the East Coast observes EDT until November
rsstack•about 17 hours ago
Many humans write EST in the summer.
SoftTalker•about 17 hours ago
EST is valid year-round, if specified.
shevy-java•about 23 hours ago
This is sad. The government, in doing so, awards e. g. twitter/Musk a de-facto total control over the communication space. I think ALL protocols need to be made fully open, and everyone should be able to write clients adhering these protocols. Any "cease and desist" also must be instantly made public. Right now there is a rogue government running the USA, run by a corrupt orange clown king. All oligarchs who supported this system need to pay compensation money to the other taxpayers.
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bluecalm•about 21 hours ago
X makes a platform available. People choose to post on it knowing full well how it works. X makes money by running ads, charging for subscriptions and tracking users.

To me it sounds reasonable that you can't just take that content and repost it without their or the author of the post explicit permission. It sounds like a fair use case and copying the whole content is not that.

Now there are technical details: "are they really copying or generating on the fly for the user" but I don't think it matters. At the end of the day the content belongs to either X or their users. I think arguments against that are arguments against copyright in general.

If I ever posted something on X my expectations would be that if people want to read it they need to obey X's terms and conditions. I wouldn't be happy if there was a platform copying it somewhere else. If I wanted my post to be public I would post on freely available public website (and then maybe repost or link it from my X's account).

orange999•about 21 hours ago
You really are the owner of all the posts who make online. When you post on X, you grant X a license to display your posts, but you still have the copyright to your posts. Same thing if you post on Reddit or Facebook or YCombinator or whatever.

This really is an absurd case, but nitter apparently really wants to err on the side of caution until a judge rules in their favor.

QuantumNomad_•about 20 hours ago
> Same thing if you post on Reddit or Facebook or YCombinator or whatever.

Personally if anyone asked me, I’d happily let them take all comments I’ve ever posted to Reddit or HN and repost all of them on their own site.

In fact, I would like to declare the following right now: All comments I ever have made and ever will make on HN are available to use for anyone and everyone who wants to under the terms of the CC0 license. You can point to this comment if questions about copyright ever come up in relation to wanting to copy my comments from HN and rehost them elsewhere.

It’s just a shame that I am not a particularly famous or interesting person, and my comments are not all that interesting especially if taken out of the threads they are posted in without the surrounding comments from others in those threads.

In order for someone to be able to fully replicate all of the user content from a site such as X or HN or whatever, they would maybe need similar permission from every contributor in every thread if there wasn’t already a permissive license the site itself had gotten its users to agree to let their content be distributed under.

Even if you could somehow get permission from each and every user on a site that you could rehost their comments, it might or might not be doing something wrong to download all of the content from the original site itself unless there’s an ok from the site itself to do so.

Idk, IANAL.

frollogaston•about 18 hours ago
It's fair. But I'm not going to visit Twitter anymore because the website is laggy and glitchy, even with an account.
bbg2401•about 23 hours ago
> You've gotta be kidding me. Unfortunately everyone still uses the Nazi app so this is actually a big problem.

If the commenter truly believes it’s a Nazi app, why are they the slightest bit upset to lose access to any version of it?

It’s astonishingly easy to not use toxic social media platforms.

gempir•about 23 hours ago
I can't even read specific public transport updates in my city because they only post those to Twitter, only vague messages on their own website.
robin_reala•about 23 hours ago
Have you thought about complaining to your public transport provider?
bbg2401•about 23 hours ago
That’s a rather poor state of affairs but is surely an issue to take up with our local authorities. Is that their only communication channel? There’s no website, RSS feed or at least mirror feed on an alternative platform?

We should have prevented Twitter/X and other platforms becoming quasi-official communications channels for public institutions.

MeetingsBrowser•about 23 hours ago
You answered your own question.

> Unfortunately everyone still uses the Nazi app

If your local town government for example only posts city updates to twitter, your options are to make a twitter account, use something like nitter, or miss out on updates.

seanw444•about 22 hours ago
There's that, and the fact that the "town square" for my city ended up being a city citizens page on Facebook. So we've got the city government and the sheriff's office posting updates to X and/or Facebook, and anything coming from the residents can only really be seen on Facebook. I don't want an X or Facebook account. I guess I'm just supposed to remain in the dark if I don't submit to corpos. The merger of corporation and state is very real, and I guess it often arrives unintentionally rather than intentionally.
bbg2401•about 23 hours ago
Is this the case where you are?

If so, that’s appalling.

MeetingsBrowser•about 23 hours ago
yes. Lots of smaller city governments are barely capable of running a functioning website.

Twitter used to be an easy and free way to distribute updates publicly. That has changed, but the inertia is still there and there isn't a good low friction alternative.

bdangubic•about 23 hours ago
I would not say astonishingly as most people are full-on addicted to these platform and addictions are hard to kick, but definitely doable (9 years for me)
bbg2401•about 23 hours ago
I suppose my bemusement comes from the fact that the commenter describes it in the most extreme terms (a nazi app!), and yet cannot kick the habit.
rererereferred•about 23 hours ago
I do not use Twitter but some people who do interesting things somehow still do and only post about them there. It's all so tiring.
ball_of_lint•about 18 hours ago
When fighting Nazis, it's quite valuable to be able to hear what they're saying and know where they're going.
rvz•about 18 hours ago
Sounds like you are their biggest fans to care so much?
ball_of_lint•about 14 hours ago
Wow, uh, not the level of discourse I expect out of HN.
suddenlybananas•about 23 hours ago
You can want to read something someone else has posted without giving your data to the owner of Twitter.
bbg2401•about 23 hours ago
So, it’s a nazi app that you can’t help but continue to read.

I don’t get it.

rireads•about 11 hours ago
What's not to get? The statements don't conflict
phoghed•about 22 hours ago
- it’s a nazi app

- some important non nazi information exists only on this app

- the nazi app is being harmed by nitter

Seems like using nitter would align with their worldview. Curious how you’ve failed to make this connection?

suddenlybananas•about 23 hours ago
Well, when heads of state, important ministers, politicians etc post things there, it's an unfortunate reality that you sometimes have to read it to stay in the loop. (I think Nazi app is a bit of an overstatement myself)
Narretz•about 23 hours ago
my guess is many people use nitter to do automatic scraping of Twitter for various projects, i.e. they can't believe they "have" to do it because so many people still use Twitter.
luciana1u•about 21 hours ago
was still using nitter for the handful of accounts I follow without logging in. can't say I'm surprised — a polite read-only mirror of someone else's product was always going to meet a lawyer before a thank-you note.
droptablemain•about 18 hours ago
What's the point of such a service? It sounds like performative nonsense.
sandcat_•about 17 hours ago
Others have explained about not being able to see all content, profiles and such.

I’ll add another reason why I redirect to it: XCancel is/was a lot faster than X and had IMO a much cleaner UI, especially when reading larger conversations or groups of tweets. I don’t browse X much, but I already have an extension installed to redirect certain sites, so adding a redirect was an easy win. I’ll miss it.

afavour•about 17 hours ago
Do you make the same complaint when folks post links to archive.is? If not, why is this different?
fauchletenerum•about 16 hours ago
If you read the comments on the Github issue for Nitter shutting down you'll see that's precisely what it is
ihuman•about 15 hours ago
I use it to make RSS feeds for accounts where I don't want to miss a single post
Petersipoi•about 17 hours ago
That is the point. It's a way to get the value of a service you don't like, while signaling to everyone that you're too virtuous to use the service you're getting value out of.
lern_too_spel•about 17 hours ago
I prefer not to share links that require the people receiving the link to create an account to read the content and it's replies or post to such websites for that matter. That's basic netiquette.
fuzzzerd•about 15 hours ago
Same, and I'm learning that we're definitely a minority.
numpad0•about 17 hours ago
So that's supposed to be the motive? Frankly I think most users just see it as a path of least resistance to a tweet. You guys really aren't familiar with this Internet thing.
Kim_Bruning•about 16 hours ago
Odd. Try to read stuff on twitter without an account/logged out.

It's a kind of enshittification pattern where a site based on user content closes off more and more access over time.

Xcancel and Nitter are/were easier to work with, afaict.

It's mostly useful if you want to link someone to a post on twitter to people who don't have an twitter account.

xvxvx•about 18 hours ago
You need an account to access X. Change the URL to xcancel and you can view these accounts.

It also looks like X requires a Google or Apple account to sign up if you don’t use your phone number. I’m not linking any of that to the X cesspool.

droptablemain•about 17 hours ago
You do not need an account to access specific X posts/tweets. You do need an account to read all replies.
pessimizer•about 17 hours ago
You need to be linked to specific tweets to know where they are. You can't just open up a timeline and read more than the last few posts (literally like 5, including any pinned post.)
behole•about 18 hours ago
You are referring to X/Twitter right?