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#office#house#cost#shed#more#home#where#build#years#building
Discussion Sentiment
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Discussion (255 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
There are many comments on the price point. I would like to comment on one thing.
"$20k is too much"
I agree $20k is an investment. Could I have done it for cheaper? Absolutely. Would a DIY shell been cheaper? Would doing more of the work myself have been cheaper? Could I have saved by putting in the smaller stock windows and not having a skylight? Of course!
But I am a dad with a young kid, he was 1 when I built the office. I didn't want to spend my limited free time on this project. There was a trade-off between paying for labor and the time it would take to do it myself. At this point in my life I always look at these decisions through a lens of: is the cost savings worth my time. In this case I valued my time more than the cost savings. I was lucky enough to be in a situation where I would rather spend money for someone else to build this then spending my nights and weekends on this project.
I am almost 4 years in I would have paid over $20k for a co-working space. We were able to stay in our smaller house with a ridiculously low mortgage rate. We made the right choice for us.
Cheap is relative. Sometimes your time is worth more. There are litteraly entire companies built on this premise, cough DoorDash
I am very glad that the grainy 40 year old photos of me at that sort of age with my father are us digging a hole together or me crawling around on a freshly poured slab of concrete - rather than at a soft play venue.
What memories with a 1 year old? Besides the fact that it's almost impossible to actively access memories from when you're 1 year old, a 1 year old shouldn't be anywhere near a construction site.
There are much better and safer uses of time together with a 1 year old that don't revolve on hoping they'd see a grainy (or nom grainy) photos 40 years later.
I did not reference memories anywhere at any time. I did not imply or state that I had memories of such, could access memories of such nor suggest it was possible in any way.
My handprints however are still in that concrete slab to this day.
Also worth mentioning 2026 - 4 = 2022. Not a great year to be stick building from a cost perspective.
The main thing I’d advise people against and say you could have possibly saved on is the structure. Tuff Shed is usually over priced and could be built usually with $2k-3k of material and labor. But the time you did this may have made that hard too, all the contractors were slammed.
Thank you for the cool post.
- A Tuff shed is a bit overkill. For a small shed (anything under 8') you should really be pretty comfortable framing it yourself. There's no fancy cuts and it comes together fast.
- Concrete foundation is definitely overkill. Unless you're storing a tungsten collection in there, simple post blocks are more than adequate.
- Windows and doors! You can save a ton of money by finding secondhand fittings at Habitat for Humanity or Marketplace. You have the benefit of being able to design around what you have.
- Forgo drywall altogether on the interior. Wood paneled walls are easier and cheaper (it doesn't hurt that I designed mine around a "British pub" theme.
- A split system is WAY overkill for a space like this. Just leave a cutout in the wall to mount a decent window unit heat pump.
If you know what you're doing, or have someone to help, you're looking at about 2-3 days of work.
If you are lucky and fortunate enough to live in an actual house with land, and work (or are thinking about working) remotely, seriously consider investing in an actual separate building for your office.
In my opinion it's commuting to the office which sucks, and not working in the office: I had a couple years where I walked in to work every day, and that was basically ideal. (It was, ironically, a job I started while living on the opposite side of the country: I then moved to a place about a mile from the office, quite a pleasant walk through the heart of the city.)
If the office was in a place where I could reasonably expect to find other jobs as well, then that could be part of my consideration, but I would never choose to live somewhere based primarily on whatever my current job is.
I've been in the game for almost 40 years now, and I'll say I've never had an office paid for by my employer that is as nice as that toughshed. I've never been in a dedicated office with a door, except when working from home.
Edit: ProTip: If you are doing concrete, rent a "Mud Mixer". Me an the kids were able to pour the 8x12x5" (130 bags of 80lbs) in well under a day, probably would have been even less if we had moved the bagged concrete to the pour site before the pour happened rather than as we were pouring.
Nah. Other people are selfish.
Shitty open floor plans, so that other peoples drive bys become distrations
Meeting rooms that are set up to hold only 3 people, because everyone wanted smaller rooms for their 1 on 1s, mean that most meeting rooms are now too small for you to gather your team in. Which leads to people having team meetings at their desks and goes back to point 1.
Crappy equipment. I work at a large enough bank that you will have heard of it, even outside the US. You get a 1080p monitor at your hot desk. After upgrading to a 1440p over a decade ago when those cheap Korean screens came out, and having a 4k for many years now, I struggle to go back to a 1080p. Applications have so much chrome because of the larger monitors.
Hot desks can fuck off too. Come into the office so you can sit with your team. Oh, but not everyone, you guys have to go to 6 rows down.
I'm not a fan of commuting either but for me it's definitely the working in an office that sucks
Maybe if it wasn't an open office bullpen style place but I've only worked in places without private or semi private offices, or even cubes
This constrains the companies you can work at to ones with a local office, if you do not want to move house. If you want to live within walking distance of many companies, you could easily be looking at paying millions of dollars for a poor quality house.
There is a happy medium if you like offices (see below): co-working spaces.
> it's commuting to the office which sucks, and not working in the office
Most company offices are fucking horrific - open plan, atrocious coffee, noisy, full of people who won’t stay home when they are sick.
We bought an old house and did a full remodel and planned for an office and a work kitchen (my wife is a chef) separated from the main house (and each other).
It's been a game changer
I have multiple Spotify playlists for this. What's neat is that I also listen to them for fun, but they also allow me to get into a work mindset.
So for me it's more of a mental walk.
These days, I may as well not even have a door. I put auto-shutting hinges on it, but that failed as reminder/deterrent long ago.
We've got a 10x20 out back that was supposed to be my workshop, but it's filled with all the things most Americans put in their garages - because we don't have one. I'm seriously considering a deep purge and converting at least 1/2 of to an office; the distractions and context switching are disastrous.
I wonder if I can convert an existing shed...
In fact, probably better to just put your desk in the bathroom for maximum efficiency!
But down that path lies a cabin innawoods.
I've heard of bomb disposal dogs, but this is an angle I hadn't previously considered
https://www.idler.co.uk/article/sheds-in-the-time-of-lockdow...
<https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/originating-underwriting/...>
Why start and invest in a construction project for a building that may not be staffed long term? Perhaps renting a small coworking space in town is the safer financial move. And have your employer pay for it.
The article states that in only 4 years it's already broken even vs renting a coworking space. Plus it is at least a theoretical bump to the property value (vs rent paid to coworking space which would be pure overhead)
only as likely as literally every other scenario. the difference is you can continue to use your backyard office for your new job
> I had tried coworking spaces but didn’t love the vibe or the idea of spending hours in a phone booth.
Fantastic.
> I got a ton of quotes for installing a mini split. They ranged from $4-$7k, which was higher than I expected after researching the cost of a quality small unit and knowing this would be a tiny job for an HVAC contractor, especially because I had my electrician prewire the electrical. I was considering installing a DIY system (Mr. Cool DIY system with pre-charged AC lines), But found an HVAC contractor who would install a system for a much lower price than the other quotes I received (and he had great reviews on Thumbtack). In the end, I got a Daikin Mini-split, a common system with many replacement parts. The installation took about 5 hours, and my tech did a great job. I am glad I researched and got a lot of quotes for this one.
It cost me ~650$ total.
The next time I bought a minisplit (3.5kW one), I already had the tools and it cost me only 450$. A proper one meant for use during harsh winter would probably costs a bit more though, at around 1000$.
So I have set up a few of them for my family and friends so far. The units come pre-charged with gas for ~5M of ducts, there is nothing hard to set them up.
I also set up ESP32 controllers so I could attach them to Home Assistant, bypassing any Chinese cloud apps, etc.
>160 hours of education/vocational training and 2 years’ verifiable experience in the trade
To get the license to install minisplits (two years experience generally means working an apprenticeship).
It's no wonder install costs are so much in the US. And as you've experienced, they're hardly rocket science to install. The 160 hours training would be more than enough, I'm not sure why 2 years experience gets tacked on the end.
I figured it had to be because the US devices are very different but they seem to be the same, and the explanation given by the usual automaton suspect was that the climate control business in the US is basically a cartel with highly inflated prices and shady regulations around how they can be sold.
Not sure if the claim is valid, but the price diff is remarkable so there must be some explanation. Usually everything you can buy is cheaper in the US.
Where? No electrician is inspecting every house that goes up for sale in the US. Sure you can ask an electrician to inspect a house electrical… but that doesn’t bar a house sale anywhere I’ve ever seen.
They won't stop you from selling the house as-is but some buyers will walk, some will demand you get it permitted, most will at least want a real inspection done. Getting as-built work permitted after the fact will cost 2-3x as much in permit costs than it would have if done properly, and it may require you to remove drywall to expose things for inspection, but as long as it meets code you won't have to rip everything out and have it redone by a licensed person. In most places you can do work on your own house, so it's the lack of permit that needs to be remedied.
In Texas every homeowner is legally entitled to work on their own electrical system without oversight from an electrician.
The city isn't in the business of busting doors and issuing citations if you replace kitchen cabinets without a permit. They basically act if someone credibly complains, which is mostly if you're doing some exterior additions / changes that annoy a neighbor.
Sure, if the odds are 50/50, or you go to jail, or the fines are $50k or something, then yeah, do it right from the start.
But if there's a 2% chance of getting caught, getting caught costs you 150%, and not getting caught costs you 10%...the choice is pretty obvious here, isn't it?
It took me a while to find a company to install a mini split I purchased on my own, and I paid $$ for labor. This was only because I didn't have the time.
That said, mini splits are so cheap (sub $500) that its easier to just purchase a new one than repair.
It doesn’t take long to install a mini-split condenser with a single air handler. Precast pad for the condensing unit, set the condensing unit on the pad (or buy a wall mount if you need to mount it off the ground), run sealtite to the condenser from the disconnect switch and pull in wire, drill two holes for the line sets and one hole for the power/signal cable that runs from the condenser to the air handler, mount the air handler, connect the line sets, plug in the power/signal cable, install and wire the thermostat. Seal the holes with silicone and turn the mini-split on.
It’s less than a day of work, finding a mechanical contractor to install equipment you furnish for $160-175/hr shouldn’t be hard, contractors just like ripping off homeowners because they don’t know any better.
You don’t really even need a mechanical contractor with precharged line sets, just ensure the disconnect switch is off and locked out before touching any line voltage wiring, and make sure you mount anything heavy to studs and not plywood or drywall.
They're literally designed to be easy to install, but in the US licensing requirements tend to be insane (in my state it's 2 years apprenticeship experience for their 'easier to get' mini-split license) and HVAC companies make more off whole home systems.
These things are regularly installed DIY by homeowners (illegally most of the time but you know), it doesn't take two years of experience to be able to install these without issue. 2 weeks, or half a dozen installs surely would be more than enough.
You still need a structural building permit, beyond any electrical or plumbing permits, if it's both heated and used either as a living space or "for a business".
The city added the "for a business" wrinkle in 2024 and is very squirrely about whether using it as a work-from-home office counts as "for a business". It _does_ include working from it without bringing employees or clients into the buildling, but the way it's written implies that it's for people running a business out of their home address and not working for someone else's business.
It's a gray-enough area that I hope you got some solid legal advice. We ended up getting the permit to cover our bases in case I had to move to freelance/consulting self-employment.
https://successfulsoftware.net/2009/07/27/where-i-program/
Might have some ideas for people thinking of setting up a home office.
When I moved house I renovated an old summer house in the garden now and use that as my office. It is great. I just wish that I had put in an air source heat pump, rather than an electric radiator.
I did notice that you mentioned soffit vents. From the photos I am having a hard time picturing how those vents were installed on that shed since they are designed to allow airflow from the soffit to the ridge. Knowing that you had a ridge vent cut in it makes it likely to me that you used baffles to allow the airflow between soffit and ridge and then insulated between the baffles and the interior space. I don't see that in the photos though so I apologize if this makes no sense.
I like the way that you finished it all out. It looks very functional. I have often considered something similar for our property but have been tied up in so many other projects that it never seems to happen.
Good job for having a plan and making it happen.
I'm glad you measured CO2. I've recently noticed I tend to get headaches when working or sleeping in small poorly-ventilated spaces, and I'm surprised how often I encounter new structures without ventilation. I guess tightly-sealed buildings are still a relatively new idea.
In the PNW you could probably be comfortable >90% of days with a cracked window, fan, adjustable shades, and a little electric radiator, but if I was doing this project I'd probably opt for the modern heat pump / ERV combo as well.
[1] e.g. https://www.pioneerminisplit.com/products/pioneer-ecoasis-50...
You are wrong about the impact of moderately high CO2 levels.
If nothing else, at least a well-ventilated room expels my farts and other airborne waste products.
And people don't want to sleep longer, they want to feel well-rested. So I think higher sleep efficiency is better.
But 8x10 for $20,000 just goes to show how expensive USA is for construction. There’s a point where I would review coworking space cost (not as convenient, I know) to just living and owning property abroad.
Electrical + AC is a firm line where that goes from shed to detached office.
I know someone who builds horse shelters that are larger than that, but a fraction of the cost, delivered. I've actually been thinking that if I wanted an outside office, I'd ask him to custom build one with the fourth wall closed (horse shelters are 3-sided) and I'd insulate and sheetrock it myself. IIRC he did our 10x30 one for about $2k, including delivery.
Around here, the cutoff for needing a permit for a "permanent structure" is 10'x12' which is a pretty good sized outside office.
Labor is expensive. You could probably close to double the size for an additional $10,000, you’d need another yard and a half of concrete for the foundation (6” depth*80 sqft = 40 cubic feet) and more material for the building, but not twice as much material, or labor. Electrical service could stay the same.l and the mini-split wouldn’t have to be much bigger.
I'm still planning on building out an office/studio, but it will be a much larger investment despite being able to DIY much of it.
Can I ask you how you're designing it right now? I could whip up some designs for you for free.
Structurally a wet fart will hold up plenty of snow when we're talking spans on the order of 10ft. A garden shed that can literally roll away in a tornado is only a few hundred dollars of material different from one that can't.
Of course Tuff Shed (or anyone else) isn't gonna make a special product line for one town in CO or wherever that wants to de-facto outlaw the construction of shed by people less than a certain wealth level. Those people can have their stuff built from scratch at great cost. Of the dozen lost sales they were likely some of the most problematic anyway.
My feedback is merely: boy it'd be nice to have the option to just order a pre-built.
What did it do to you that you needed to insult it?
https://tuhat.net/@sbr/p/big-tech-sucks
The rack warms it in the winter so I don't need any extra cooling, and I run the AC in the summer.
Compared to the total cost of the project, using 2x6 and correspondingly thicker standard pink fiberglass insulation (R-13 to R-15 for a 3.5" cavity vs R-19 to R-21 for a 5.5" cavity) the cost difference is not a lot.
but over the next few years i learned so many hobby art projects: insulation, electrical, sheetrock. a few inspections, a few consults. a few surprises that people in this state can just go buy the stuff at a box store!
and then eventually, my 12x6 foot office appeared, the same width as a 1960s metal tanker desk. finally!
and ... i instantly hated working out there. i didnt make it 6 weeks. it's just an office for storing crap, now: i work out of the house, where the kitchen, dogs, bathroom, are. but the journey was worth it, even if the destination was not.
I don't recall how technical it is[^1] because I read it years ago, but Michael Pollan wrote an entire book about building himself a writing room:
https://michaelpollan.com/books/a-place-of-my-own/
[^1]: Being familiar with Pollan's writing, it's likely at least as much philosophical and meditative as technical and practical.
I have a neighbor 100k+ into a foundation retrofit for his living room.
Monitors are relatively cheap these days, you can get a name brand 32" 4K monitor for around $300 - if someone busts in and steals it, the door/window repair will probably cost more than the monitor.
I spent about 14-15k NZD 2 years ago to get it setup. I wish I had done it years ago.
- What type of floor? (2x4? 2x6? will it hold me and my chair without collapsing?)
- What roof type? How big should the overhang be? What's easier to build yourself vs looks nicer but a real pain to build?
- How many windows should be in my office?
- How do I build something within my budget?
- What size of shed should I go with for my purpose? (workshop? office?)
I'm working on https://myhomecat.com - which lets you do all of this. If you enter your address and the kind of shed you want (i.e. 10x12 office), you should be able to get something fully code-compliant that figures out all of your details. It's still early so it doesn't cover every edge case, but the idea is there and it works really well from the feedback I've gotten.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFP-fU0FsF0
My mother-in-law lives in rural Missouri and had her 6x10 bathroom remodeled in 2025. Full gut replacement of everything. Total cost: $5600. I got a quote for something similar in a bit larger bathroom in our house in Seattle. Quoted price: $31,000.
Labor is a good chunk of cost, and the OP presented that he simply didn't have the time available to him to do that work himself. On the other hand, I built 20-ish feet of fencing for our backyard this summer, matching an existing design we had done several years ago. Quoted price from the same company that did it the first time: $9800. I did the work myself. My total cost: $1400.
That works out great, right? I also have a significant investment in all the right tools: compound mitre saw, construction-grade table saw, nail guns, impact/hammer/regular drills, angle grinders, power sanders, every drill bit in captivity -- I don't really lack for anything. These make a huge difference in the workmanship of the final outcome.
And that was just a fence. I've considered building an external office here at our house. When I start to take into account the scope of converting an outdoor shed to an acceptable backyard office, I hit the brakes. Electrical power under proper permits, adequate security, something that holds up under our weather, potential water/sewer access, and sufficient space to work (I can't live without a whiteboard)...there is more scope than meets the eye.
All things considered, I think the OP did a pretty good job here in terms of cost control and recognizing what he could do (windows) vs. needed someone else to do (proper electrical.)
Smaller jobs are more expensive per square foot because not all costs scale with size. Which is why you see all these godawful TJ Homes being built where they just rip out the house, build a 3 story structure (including basement) that takes every square inch of the lot.
You can yell at a contractor or the mirror but there's a tax.
I went with PVC because it's the easiest to work with, NEC only required it be buried 12in below the surface for residential, but I went to 24". I oversized the PVC a bit so I had room to run more cables as well. I filled the trench with gravel, ran the PVC over that, then filled over it with some more gravel. A thin layer of dirt, marking tape and then the rest of the dirt. Rent a trencher if you have hard ground.
If you're having a licensed electrician do the work of connecting house and office power then you can ask them to run the conduit for it at the same time.
i tried to find a page that wasn't terrible for this, still kind of bad though:
https://www.gloryoptics.com/info/how-deep-does-spectrum-bury...
I've seen some properties where they build ponds underneath the indoor hallway with glass flooring to see the fish and stuff in the pond. Obviously wild things like that cost a bit more then a simple awning or covered walkway.
And then lose all the regulatory benefit of whatever shed exemption you're trying to use, get absolutely screwed on regulatory compliance and code whatnot that you're leveraging by having it be a detached outbuilding. And then get sneered at by HN when you say the rules as they apply to your situation are stupid.
It's got to suck to do the inspectors job. Having to keep up with whatever the code creators come up with, while also getting abused by every home owner and contractor in the area because they hate X,Y or Z. While trying to dodge political leverage from elected officials trying to get whatever pet mess they want done.
It's not a job I'd want, and I bet they get paid trash to boot.
Code compliance and inspections exist for a reason, and if you are lucky, the current inspector/code compliance dept in your local govt realizes it's to ensure the building doesn't fall down around your ankles when you least expect it and not to screw you over.
Like if I'm bringing my bins to the road for pickup, I never bother putting on a jacket or w/e regardless of weather. If it does happen to actually be a torrential downpour, I just switch to a new t-shirt when I'm back inside.
$20K still seems like a lot to get some mosquito bites walking through the yard to work. Lack of plumbing, coffee, etc (some of those are fixable of course) is a bit of a turnoff but perhaps the walk is part of the charm.
I find that with kids mostly in school and knowing the rules the exterior space isn’t a requirement, but I don’t have a ton of meetings these days so YMMV. Mostly this is cope because I don’t have 20K to drop on a cool office! :)
Nice work and thanks for the post!
In some parts of the world, people consider spending time outdoors to be a positive thing.
You're going to have to break that down for me.
The biggest problems I see is wanting to frame out the walls with 2x6's for thicker insulation, ceiling trusses at 16 oc for snow load and thicker for insulation as well (or lose the headroom and build a traditional ceiling/attic), and of course more heating load from the heat pump.