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#country#visa#immigration#visas#immigrant#leave#more#trump#immigrants#administration

Discussion (843 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

OutOfHereabout 17 hours ago
hvb2about 17 hours ago
So for those that don't know, it's quite common for a visa renewal to be required to leave the country. Depending on the visa, you might have to do this every year.

So just imagine, having a normal job in the US and you're asked to leave to renew your visa and this stuff happens.

That's no more appointment, not even a new date and you're now very likely unable to work and possibly can't even enter the country to get your belongings if you were to leave.

Just 'putting a pause' on people with existing appointments with no answer for when they might resume is.... Inhumane

conductrabout 12 hours ago
Not trying to make a political point at all and perhaps a controversial take. But, it’s specifically and maybe implicitly by design. Meaning they made this way precisely so you have to reapply so they can change their mind or block you out later. Nothing about getting a visa is permanent and you’re fully at risk when you move here with that type of status. If you evaluate the situation that’s always been the case.
hvb2about 7 hours ago
The leaving part is not the issue, as you try to immigrate into a country you're subject to the rules that country sets. You're always free to not immigrate into that country (this is not about asylum).

The issue here is that, if you just left the country to do everything the country asked you, you are now in limbo.

For how long? No one can tell.

Does this mean you lose your job? Maybe.

And when you decide it's no longer worth it, you might even have issues getting back in to get your stuff...

Retraining your people CAN be done without it being so disruptive, they chose not to.

motbus3about 2 hours ago
when you treat immigrants like they were not people with lifes, you are just one step away from treating poor people as they were not people and then too treat all common people as they were not people.

also it has been quite convenient explanation for adopting systems such as Flock and allowing all kinds of para-police actions which seems very similar to what happened in germany circla 1930-1934

bossyTeacher18 minutes ago
> The leaving part is not the issue, as you try to immigrate into a country you're subject to the rules that country sets.

The ultimate uncertainty is that regardless of who you are and what you do, a country always has the right to kick you out when you are there on a visa regardless of what the rights and rules of that visa. Nothing is guaranteed ultimately.

conductrabout 7 hours ago
> The issue here is that, if you just left the country to do everything the country asked you, you are now in limbo.

I feel like I’ve said it a few times but - Yes, exactly. The country wants you to leave and then get’s to decide if you can come back. That’s how it’s designed. On purpose.

You’re approaching it from a perspective where you’re being asked to leave and your reentry is a right. It’s not. They never said, if you leave you can come back. They said, leave and we’ll see. The risk of being blocked out is inherent by anyone residing in a country that has this similar process; there are many.

deadbabeabout 4 hours ago
Technically you should be taking your stuff with you when you leave the country, and not assume you will just be allowed back in.

If anything, there are services that can deliver your stuff back to you, so this is not the big deal it seems to be.

RobotToasterabout 3 hours ago
> And when you decide it's no longer worth it, you might even have issues getting back in to get your stuff...

Do they refuse tourist visas for someone who recently had an immigrant visa?

shostackabout 11 hours ago
The cruelty is the point.
foltikabout 7 hours ago
Look around the thread and notice how little the comments defending these policies have to say about the policies themselves. Instead, what they all have in common is a vague underlying fear of being displaced, or sense that something owed to them is being taken.
scoofyabout 9 hours ago
I mean, anyone who is still defending this administration isn't even trying to have a conversation in good faith.

I have a Republican friend who appreciates the Supreme Court Justices, and then suddenly has zero clue about any news story involving the administration, and shrugs off the war. This despite meticulously following Benghazi hearings when it was someone he wanted to dislike. He would rather Trump be Romney, but he's not going to do anything about it whatsoever.

I blame myself for teasing my Italian friend in college over Silvio Berlusconi, and now I've found myself in the same position :(

khazhouxabout 6 hours ago
Like most internet meme phrases, this is both trite and inaccurate. The cruelty is not the point. This administration has decided foreigners are the scapegoat, and wants to get rid of as many as they can. It’s heartless, but cruelty is not the objective.
rayinerabout 10 hours ago
It’s not “cruelty” to have and enforce rules. The words “temporary” and “nonimmigrant” is plastered all over the laws that govern these visas. People shouldn’t have treated them as permanent immigration visas. And employers shouldn’t have mislead employees into thinking these were permanent immigration visas.

It’s like saying that it’s “cruelty” to remove someone who uses a 2 hour parking spot as their permanent car parking.

s_devabout 2 hours ago
I can confirm Ireland does this as well. I'm not familiar with immigration law as have both US and EU passports and can travel to work freely between the two.

While I critique the US for a lot and it does get a lot wrong I think many countries do this.

danmaz74about 4 hours ago
Yes, but that should be on a case by case basis. Blocking everybody is just an ideologically stupid choice, besides being inhumane.
noelwelshabout 1 hour ago
There is a difference between what is legal and what is moral. If you think that there is no difference you also hold that slavery was moral up until the time it was illegal (and you might then wonder why abolitionists campaigned against a moral act.) Similarly, the visa system may have always had this uncertainty but that does not mean it is moral, or that it is moral to use it in this way.
philipallstarabout 1 hour ago
Who said it was moral?
inemesitaffiaabout 1 hour ago
Better talk to Bhutan
CamperBob2about 11 hours ago
Unless you use the visa to marry Donald Trump, as his 3rd wife did.
dhosekabout 9 hours ago
His first wife too.
seebeegeebeeabout 7 hours ago
So brave
tptacekabout 10 hours ago
Lots of countries have temporary worker status. The requirement to leave the country to re-up it appears to be a distinctively American thing.
bigtoe416about 9 hours ago
I was recently in Malaysia on a digital nomad visa. When it expired I was required to leave the country and either wait for the renewal to go through or reenter on a tourist visa (and either not work or work illegally). So not distinctively American.
coderenegadeabout 9 hours ago
It's definitely not. I know Japan and Korea had a similar process when I was living there, and I was under the impression that most places operate this way. Your visa grants you right to temporarily stay in the country, and if you don't have a visa you have no right to be there. Sometimes there's a bridging visa to cover the gap, but a country isn't under any obligation to provide one.
conductrabout 9 hours ago
But my point is it’s a known factor up front, and it’s so they can (have the option of) getting you to leave without allowing you back in. The thinking is that if people had visas that expires or revoked, they just wouldn’t leave and enforcement would be difficult (we have a forceful ICE now, but not always). Having them leave first is by design even if unique.
EA-3167about 9 hours ago
It’s fairly common in destinations for migration, less so elsewhere.
s1artibartfastabout 9 hours ago
Is extremely common in europe and asia
pandamanabout 10 hours ago
Immigrant visas cannot be renewed - if you use such a visa to enter the country then you become a lawful permanent resident and are not eligible for any visas until you abandon your permanent residency, and even then you will need to apply for a brand new visa.
testbjjlabout 9 hours ago
I think there are a lot of inhumane things happening around the world right now to label this inconvenient, at best. We need better leadership through higher voter participation and an informed electorate to stop these inhumane and inconvenient policies.
NeutralWantedabout 9 hours ago
Speak for yourself, I voted for exactly these policies.
bruce511about 9 hours ago
Thank you for posting. I'm being sincere.

I think it is helpful to remind folk that these policies are not universally hated. Indeed a majority of voters voted specifically for them, and they were explicitly laid out.

This is democracy in action. The majority (of those who care enough at all) get to rule over the minority (and the apathetic). Obviously not all actions will be universally loved, but no govt action can ever be universally loved.

hvb2about 5 hours ago
I would genuinely like to understand how you square this with the current president being known to leverage a lot of low/unskilled temporary workers visas.

If these weren't issued he would need to hire Americans?

Sources: https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2026-01-30/the-trump...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacheverson/2025/06/12/trump-or...

testbjjlabout 8 hours ago
But will remain anonymous and are okay with the collateral damage. My suspicion is that competition makes you feel insecure. I was born and raised in SF, and I see this not only with immigrants but also from people who feel violated by migrants. There is a spectrum. It’s ugly, short sighted and unhelpful. It’s what it takes to make the valley, but people love pulling up ladders. At least, behind an alias, you’re will to acknowledge your shortcomings.
ActorNightlyabout 5 hours ago
Its kinda crazy to me that someone on HN can get upvoted for prioritizing xenophobia and racism enough to vote for convicted felon pedophile for president, but I guess thats the world we live in.

Im REALLY hoping that Trump manages to actually successfully coup the government this time around, cause the only way forward is for American populace to start experiencing actual hardship without the Democrats coming in and fixing everything then getting blamed for "bad economy".

seanmcdirmidabout 10 hours ago
> So just imagine, having a normal job in the US and you're asked to leave to renew your visa and this stuff happens.

The only way I can see this happening is if you try to convert from OTP to an H1. I used to do some runs up to Vancouver to help a friend do that.

This just generally sucks for anyone making plans in their life. I remember my wife's greencard interview in Guangzhou, and it would have sucked if they instituted this the day before she did that.

OptionOfTabout 12 hours ago
H1-B and L1 can actually be done in-country, but for some reading going abroad and get consular processing has a lower chance of RFE.
HeavenFoxabout 12 hours ago
You are talking about change (or extension) of status, not visa.

US is unique in that the visa sticker and your right to remain in the country (status) are two different things. The only purpose of the visa sticker is to allow you to travel to a U.S. port of entry, where you apply for admission, and therefore legal status. You can have legal status in the U.S. while the visa sticker has expired, and your status can be changed or extended domestically. However unless you have a valid sticker you cannot leave and return.

maxgashkovabout 12 hours ago
It's not unique: Japanese system is exactly as you described.
sjtgrahamabout 11 hours ago
There actually is a pilot to renew h1-b visa foils while in the US without a consular appointment.
spiralpolitikabout 12 hours ago
Based on my experience 20 years ago you could only renew the H-1B visa in the passport in-country under extraordinary circumstances. In the majority of cases they reject your request and would tell you to travel to a consulate.

Prior to the mid 00s you could renew at any consulate but they changed it so you could only renew in your home country.

zemabout 10 hours ago
the "only in your home country" change happened very recently, late 2025 or early 2026
gpt5about 12 hours ago
The pause on visa appointments does not apply to H1-B and L1 as they are nonimmigrant visas. It applies to family based immigration visa, diversity visa, and EB-1/2/3 when you do processing abroad.

(You might have known that, but I thought it's worth clarifying).

prependabout 17 hours ago
I have friends who are expats and they’ve done this for years. I had one family member who left every six months to renew their visa.

It’s a chore, but very common around the world.

yibgabout 17 hours ago
Were they able to come back when they did this?
goodluckchuckabout 16 hours ago
I think the whole point of making someone leave is the possibility that they may not be allowed back in. If staying was a foregone conclusion then there’d be no point in leaving.
assemblymanabout 15 hours ago
Were the visas for the US? B1/B2?

I know stuff like this happens for digital nomads in southeast asia or Schengen but the US generally doesn't approve of "visa runs".

davidlumleyabout 13 hours ago
Visa renewals are processed at a US consulate. You can extend your status (ie you ability to legally be in the US) while staying in the US, but if you want to renew your visa (your ability to leave and re-enter) you need to visit a consulate and those only exist outside of the US.
BrandoElFollitoabout 16 hours ago
In the EU you do not need to leave to renew your visa. I don't know how common it is elsewhere.
retiredabout 10 hours ago
Visa rules are country specific and don’t apply to the EU in general. There are countries that require you to leave.
sega_saiabout 16 hours ago
Sorry, but that is not common around the world. Most countries do not have such a system. I.e. none of the EU/UK/Australia countries have that.
dgellowabout 14 hours ago
Is it? You’re generally able to renew without leaving. Unless you mean abusing a visitor visa?
aloknnikhilabout 11 hours ago
Isn't this specifically for immigrant Visas? The work and student Visas (H1B / F1) are non-immigrant Visas.
garbawarbabout 16 hours ago
Or imagine if an employee works for you and this happens to them.
nostrademonsabout 16 hours ago
I've had a couple of reports that this applied to. It's incredibly disruptive. "I've got to fly back to India to renew my visa." "Okay, when will you be back?" "I have no idea, it depends when I can get an appointment. It could be next week, it might be in a month." "[State department] We're pausing all visa appointments." "Well fuck."

Meanwhile I've got a tech lead who is 12 hours away from the rest of the team. He was at least willing to work US-East hours while in India (basically staying up all night and sleeping during the day), but there was a huge amount of management overhead and inconvenience for the employee involved.

arecurrenceabout 11 hours ago
I've worked at companies where we transfer people to Canada during periods like this in the same time zone. Sometimes they enjoy it so much they don't want to transfer back to the US.
assemblymanabout 15 hours ago
At least the procedure used to be that one would try to get an appointment at the US consulate in one's home country and then arrange the trip around it. Also, at least in my experience (but importantly, not with this administration) was that one was never required to leave the US.

The main constraint is re-entry into the US and being able to travel outside the US. If one stayed here, there was no problem switching schools, programs, jobs, adjusting status to permanent residency or naturalization. On the other hand, for re-entry, one needs a valid visa stamped on a passport which necessitated a trip to one's home country. This stamping visit could be unpredictable.

Ideally, one would like to travel freely to see family and friends but I see a lot of comments implying that one is forced to leave. It might be true now but a lot of comments here are conflating several issues together.

jimbo808about 12 hours ago
Hire Americans?

Hundreds of thousands of tech workers have been laid off in the last two years. There are many skilled Americans on the job market. Foreign workers are here for the benefit of the United States, not as charity to the rest of the world, or as a source of cheaper labor for global employers seeking to undercut American wages.

selcukaabout 12 hours ago
> Foreign workers are here for the benefit of the United States

But that's the point, isn't it? Some foreign workers who "worked the US for the benefit of the US" are now unable to come back to the US. Isn't that bad for the US too?

doug_durhamabout 12 hours ago
It's clear you are not a hiring manager. There aren't thousands of highly qualified engineers looking for work. I can't tell if this a troll post or not.
amir734jjabout 10 hours ago
Agreed. I live in Midwest and that's the same sentiment I am getting from the people. People voted to oppose illegal migration, not stopping legal migration. This November will be judgment day for this administration's policies.
hilariouslyabout 10 hours ago
The term "illegal immigration" got moved to "people who have proper papers and did everything legally but were granted access by someone I don't like" - anyone who was an informed voter could see that "against illegal immigration" was just red meat for the base.
glimsheabout 17 hours ago
In the mid 2000s, I had to leave the US for renewal while leaving all my hard assets behind. I had a plan in place in case I couldn't go back to the country, which did happen to some people. These people had their interviews, but they got held back outside the US, sometimes for months, waiting for the renewal process to finish. I had an immediate renewal, but was almost held back for some red tape reasons.

This sucks but it isn't new, unfortunately.

dbspinabout 13 hours ago
The scale is new. Obviously a nightmare or even a tragedy for individual people that it happens at all. But this happening to (tens of?) thousands of people all at once is a whole different thing.
bmitcabout 10 hours ago
This report is for immigrant visas. H-1B visas are not immigrant visas and are the ones that require the stamp renewal in the home country.

That being said, yes, the way the current administration handles immigrant visas, worker visas, and more is absolutely inhumane and completely asinine. I've been through it with family and friends, and it is painful and can be heartbreaking even.

assemblymanabout 15 hours ago
At least for F1 and H-1B visas, one wasn't required to get a new visa physically stamped (for which one would have to leave) to switch schools (undergrad -> grad) or jobs. Is this forced now? Of course, if one wanted the freedom to be able to travel or visit one's home country, a new stamping was required if the old visa expired.

It's not ideal but a lot of us basically didn't leave for several years (even pre-Trump 1) to avoid the hassle of a new stamping.

apercuabout 17 hours ago
In Canada I had to leave and re-enter for my permanent resident status to complete. It’s not that uncommon - but it’s a pain.
smnrchrdsabout 17 hours ago
In Canada you never have to leave to renew or change status; it's just sometimes faster to do so. It's always the applicant's choice. I went through the whole work permit to PR to citizenship pipeline without ever having to leave the country.
sansworkabout 16 hours ago
I'm not sure if its the same in Canada but when I went through the process for Australia it depended on where you started the process. I started the process while outside the country so to activate my visa I had to leave and come back but if I had filed while in the country I could have stayed.

I do remember Canada telling my partner she wouldn't be guaranteed reentry while they were processing her PR visa until it was finalised if we left the country though so we just ended up doing the Australian half first and I never went back.

euio757about 16 hours ago
> I went through the whole work permit to PR to citizenship pipeline without ever having to leave the country.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

People going from non-immigrant visa (H1B, F1 etc.) to Green card via i485 "adjustment of status" do not need to leave the country either.

Only consular processing (ds 260) are in scope of this pause

https://www.ellis.com/resources/immigrant-visa-pause-2026

Has more details than the paywalled article

apercuabout 15 hours ago
I did it 20+ years ago and I had to “land”. They’ve relaxed a lot of immigration rules since then so it might have changed.
fidotronabout 11 hours ago
"Flagpoling" was the beautiful euphemism for this.
kashunstvaabout 12 hours ago
Really? My spouse and I lived in Canada on work permits and were not required to leave in order to achieve PR status; nor to achieve citizenship status.
jbmabout 12 hours ago
Prior to Covid, my wife had to exit the country to get photos taken as part of the permanent resident process. We took a trip to Montana for that purpose.

This seems to have changed in the past 3-4 years, but as the GP said, the original process did involve leaving.

PierceJoyabout 17 hours ago
OP isn't criticizing the practise of leaving to renew. He's criticizing the this new policy of not letting you back in when you leave.
tclancyabout 12 hours ago
Hang on a tick: does that mean we may have been the baddies all along?

I say this as someone who just sent their daughter to NYC explaining how we used to try to sell the Brooklyn Bridge to poor immigrants who just assumed this was a land of kind people, WTF? Could we not take a decade off from being prissy about our democracy *and* total cocks about how we actually act?

HumblyTossedabout 11 hours ago
Indeed it is. But that’s the point Miller, etc are trying to make.

We’re so screwed. Good luck to us ever building up goodwill again.

pstuartabout 10 hours ago
It will take generations -- if we even get the chance.
consensus1about 9 hours ago
We'll be fine. It didn't take Germany & Japan that long after they started WWII
ck2about 16 hours ago
everything this administration does daily is from one of three boxes

     [CHAOS]  [CORRUPTION]  [CRUELTY]
this is a little from the first box and the last box

imagine what's tomorrow or next week

meanwhile let's all enjoy the billion spent on making statues gold plated in DC and the ballroom and the arch and his drapes and his reflecting pool and 100 foot banners of his face on federal building and his face on gold coins, passports, park passes and the $250 bill

it's surreal

timmytokyoabout 16 hours ago
You forgot [INCOMPETENCE]
eviksabout 16 hours ago
That's the foundational box for the actors, not a property of the actions
JoshTriplettabout 11 hours ago
Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
Varelionabout 16 hours ago
Inhumane is every choice made by this country under this regime. The "bothsides" and "no politics" crowds are equally as complicit in this as Trump voters.
erktabout 16 hours ago
Inhumane maybe, but our government should owe its first allegiance to our citizens wellbeing, not imported workers.
kashunstvaabout 12 hours ago
Surely you would admit that this Administration’s approach to immigration has been both chaotic and cruel. The workers who were given status in the United States expected a predictable process, not one that changes weekly based on the unserious personal whims of a bored, ill-informed and vindictive man. In any case, the prioritization of citizens’ wellbeing writ large is demonstrably _not_ a feature of this Administration’s agenda.
consensus1about 9 hours ago
The entire point of a temporary visa is that the host country can refuse to renew and force you to leave the country at their whim. When you apply for such a visa you accept those terms.
ViktorRayabout 13 hours ago
The government should not be doing inhumane things to people. This should not be a controversial statement.
epistasisabout 12 hours ago
How, in any way does this help the wellbeing of a citizen? Why bring up that very strange point, which is completely unconnected to the massive harm here.

If anything, these policies harm the citizens of the US in a myriad of ways. There's zero benefit to be had from any of this. Except for the joy tha tthe cruel feel in causing others misery, but that's not citizens, that's just a few sick people.

0xDEAFBEADabout 8 hours ago
>There's zero benefit to be had from any of this.

From the article:

"Updated guidance and training were being put in place to ensure that visa applicants don’t become a public charge under U.S. law or depend on government benefits intended for Americans in need, a spokesman for the department said Wednesday."

mcmcmcabout 16 hours ago
The first responsibility is to protect the rights of all people in the country. Citizenship is not required for protected rights
waterTanukiabout 11 hours ago
The mere suggestion that this admin is doing this or anything else for the wellbeing of its citizens is a complete departure from reality.

It's very clear what the motivations are, and just because they don't seem harmful in isolation doesn't mean it's going to have no consequences for everyone else.

UncleMeatabout 12 hours ago
And its going so great for our citizens wellbeing. Oodles of programs for the needy smashed to bits. Corruption and self dealing out the wazoo. Protestors shot to death by ICE agents. A legendarily stupid war fucking up international shipping. Illegal tariffs changing daily.
vjvjvjvjghvabout 11 hours ago
My company has a H-1B guy that travelled home to India a few months ago and since then can't come back because the next date he can get with the US embassy is next year. Seems he may get stuck even longer...

I am to some degree on board with keeping a closer eye on immigration, but the way the current administration does it feels intentionally cruel. The guy at my company has a house, wife, and kids in the US; his visa is perfectly legal, so it seems it would make sense to process these people quickly. But instead, he is now in some limbo. Same for ICE. Clamping down on illegal immigration makes sense, but it doesn't make sense for ICE to behave like some unaccountable secret police that hires the biggest assholes they can find who can then do whatever they want.

dzongaabout 17 hours ago
the current admin are working hard to destroy the U.S as if they're foreign agents.

not only are they making it hard & unbearable for families of US citizens & PR holders to be together.

while at the same time - discouraging talent to come to the US at a crucial time when talent is at a premium due to A.I development.

last the backwards energy policy of banning renewable energy.

sinecureabout 16 hours ago
This was never about talent. It's about companies hiring foreigners on h1b visas at below market wages where their life in the USA is contingent on their job performance forcing them to work harder and longer than their peers to remain in the country. It's a situation that only benefits companies, while harming US citizens who have to compete with the lower wages of foreigners.
yodsanklaiabout 10 hours ago
I work in a global company. As an interviewer, I don't even know if the person I interview is a US citizen. I don't even know if they live in the US or another country, and I'm probably not allowed to ask. I just rate their performance. And everybody is paid the same.

I think the situation is quite simple. Companies want the best candidates they can get, and the larger the recruitment pool, the better.

If tomorrow you were to tell (let say) Google they now need to hire only US citizens, would they lower their hiring bar, or would they expand their Shanghai or Zurich offices? Are US citizens entitled to work at Google more than others for the sole reason they have a particular citizenship?

Georgelementalabout 8 hours ago
> Companies want the best candidates they can get, and the larger the recruitment pool, the better.

Yes, at the lowest wages they can get. Increase supply -> lower prices (wages) -> more corporate profits!

However, there are those who believe that corporate profits are not the highest good. Some of us also care about the earnings of American workers.

Also, "best candidates" alone does not "best company" make. You need people who can work well together—which requires some degree of culture fit. Immigration restrictions help preserve the cultural homogeneity that makes collaboration and social trust possible.

CSMastermind34 minutes ago
> Companies want the best candidates they can get

Every global company I've worked at has had extensive ethnic networks and sometimes teams of only one ethnicity.

It's painfully obvious that they're not just taking the most qualified candidates.

ra0x3about 10 hours ago
> I think the situation is quite simple. Companies want the best candidates they can get, and the larger the recruitment pool, the better.

Respectfully, this sounds terribly naive.

itakeabout 8 hours ago
If the h1bs are given access to the jobs (training and experience), then is it the American's fault that they are no longer considered "best"?

Google (and friends) famously have teams composed of a single national origin (or caste...). What does that say about their hiring bar?

Google (and friends) are already expanding the Shanghai and Zurich offices.

overfeedabout 10 hours ago
> I just rate their performance. And everybody is paid the same.

For some visa classes, the law says you should hire an American citizen if they can do the job - not if they rank first at whiteboards or fizz-buzz.

> If tomorrow you were to tell (let say) Google they now need to hire only US citizens, would they lower their hiring bar

Does it really matter? To a point, obviously, but a lot of people are good enough for the role without being the world's best. The bar for getting into Google has dropped since its early days, and Google keeps breaking profit records quarter after quarter.

This entire "hire the best or nothing" mindset has led to a dysfunctional hiring process that's a pain to both employers and employees, and is prima facie unachievable.

doug_durhamabout 12 hours ago
I was a hiring manager. H1B candidates got exactly the same wage as native born. There were no differences.
10000truthsabout 11 hours ago
Being paid the same as the other guy doesn't necessarily mean the wages themselves stayed the same. Adding H1B candidates to the talent pool exerts downward pressure on salary due to the law of supply and demand. I can't say for sure whether the allure of a green card or threat of deportation play a material factor in lowering the average salary that H1B immigrants are willing to accept. But in an environment where talent is treated as fungible (even if it isn't always so), any such downward pressure affects everyone.
georgeburdellabout 7 hours ago
When they're on visa managers know you can work them harder, especially during the PERM process
charcircuitabout 12 hours ago
The idea is that the "same wage" you are talking about is too low to hire enough employees in the time needed that the company needed so they had to look abroad for people willing to work for that amount.
lowbloodsugarabout 8 hours ago
I was an H1B and this is a fucking lie.
wasabi991011about 9 hours ago
How does companies hiring h1b-holders (a non-immigrant visa) relate to a pause on immigrant visa applications?
bakiesabout 15 hours ago
Isn't that a work visa and not an immigrant visa
thatfrenchguyabout 12 hours ago
H-1B / L-1 are non-immigrant visas, immigrant visas are green cards yes. Pausing green card processing in consulates after (on sketchy legal grounds) forcing folks to not do adjustment of status for getting an immigrant visa inside the country is, indeed, how the admin is trying to get around doing their job the way the INA intends them to.
dyauspitrabout 9 hours ago
As a hiring manager no one tells you who is an immigrant and who isn’t when you interview them.
ApolloFortyNineabout 9 hours ago
As an interviewee I've read "we're not sponsoring visas at this time" a million times.
altcognitoabout 12 hours ago
Oh cool, good thing labor isn't fungible and nobody ever outsources.

What a brilliant plan. Lets make sure that we restrict the supply of doctors and medical personell, that's sure to improve care!

mc32about 13 hours ago
Recently[1] Microsoft laid off several thousand domestic employees while simultaneously hiring a couple thousand employer-sponsored-Visa workers.

[1]https://www.newsweek.com/microsoft-layoffs-2026-xbox-h1b-vis...

a2ff6eeb0about 12 hours ago
And yet, they never applied the simple option of ranking the visa applications by salary, and approving in order of demand for the talent.

That would be a market based solution that allows everyone to get the talent they need without driving down American wages.

But the point isn't about helping Americans, it's about being peedormatively against letting in brown people.

Izikiel43about 12 hours ago
They are doing that now too, however the problem is that h1b is used for roles outside of tech, believe it or not, and if you measure everything by Bay Area tech salaries a bunch of necessary but lower paying jobs will go unfilled
anon84873628about 15 hours ago
"Superpower Suicide" in the words of historian Timothy Snyder.

Also encompasses the self-destruction of military power, alliances, and beneficial trade.

jeremyjhabout 9 hours ago
It looks more like homicide to me. Almost exactly like being pushed out the window of a skyscraper. But who would do such a thing?
Gudabout 2 hours ago
The US public, who voted a conman to be their top dog not once but twice? And before that, some oil barons?
fblpabout 12 hours ago
These visa policies have already encouraged large tech companies etc to expand their Indian offices. It erodes the US tax base and means talent stay in their home country, which means more innovation happens outside the US. More start-ups are been founded in these countries because more talent is now there.

Trump first term was make Mexico and Vietnam Great Again as companies moved their manufacturing there. This term its make India Great Again as companies retain and train their tech talent there.

throwaway85825about 11 hours ago
They will and after a cyberleek incident they'll rethink that plan.
franktankbankabout 10 hours ago
Who cares where this so called innovation happens? Won't it be cheaper for all of us if the salaries are in much lower cost of living places? Why would a US citizen give a shit?
phendrenad2about 8 hours ago
I've never worked at a company that gave offshore teams the same responsibilities as onshore employees. When shit gets real, and someone's head needs to be on the chopping block, it's always a same-shore employee. But reduced responsibility also means reduced impact. Let's see if that changes, and I'd love to see it happen, but I'm not holding my breath.
ModernMechabout 8 hours ago
> the current admin are working hard to destroy the U.S as if they're foreign agents.

They are insurgents. These people are Confederates.

tclancyabout 12 hours ago
I used to think things like this as an American. But let's simplify. What if they're just fucking idiots and they realized they could rally a bunch of other fucking idiots to the polls?

So if you were essentially having a spasm about how no one understands how perfect the world was when you had all the advantages, I mean, we don't need a fancy theory at that point. It's literally old people spewing up acid about why their kids don't come to Thanksgiving, only we managed to create such a presence in the world media, it's a damned disaster.

tclancyabout 12 hours ago
Like if your racist grampa got put in charge of US Treasuries, tell me how things would be worse.
aikinaiabout 7 hours ago
How is Scott Bessent like a racist grandpa?
refurbabout 9 hours ago
Welcome to how immigration works in other countries. Canada just changed a bunch of rules and is actively sending immigration officers to immigrant protests to run status checks and deport anyone in the country illegally.

There is no right for non-citizens to come to the US.

rescripting18 minutes ago
Who is talking about illegal immigration? This thread is about legal visa holders following the law.
jimbob45about 10 hours ago
Do you think China should open their borders for everyone no questions asked? Kick out no one, even overstayed visas?

If not, are you willing to equate the current Chinese regime’s quality to that of your perceived quality of the US?

doc_ickabout 9 hours ago
I see you trying to kick a field goal all the way from the school parking lot, good luck with that.
ApolloFortyNineabout 9 hours ago
It's not popular to mention but the US is the most immigrated to country on the planet, almost 4x the next country.

But really, immigrating to any country is quite complex. It's far from "just fill out a form" for pretty much every western country.

ciconiaabout 3 hours ago
26 years ago I was a post-graduate student in the US, I arrived a couple months before the 9/11 attacks. The current US government, beyond its idiocy and incompetence, is just so hostile, not only to immigrants but also to its own citizens, so it seems. If I were to go study in another country today, the US would simply not be an option.
swalberg20 minutes ago
Interesting that this is happening at the end of the fiscal year. The September Visa Bulletin[0] advanced the family categories significantly saying there weren't enough applications to use the available visas for FY2026.

0 - https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v...

cogogoabout 2 hours ago
It is only a matter of time before this administration does this to green card applications and renewals too. A permanent green card is not permanent. It needs to be renewed every 10 years. I am also worried about policies eventually directed at naturalized citizens. I sincerely hope I am wrong.
navs29 minutes ago
Probably a good thing for many migrants. I mean who would want to migrate to a country that's so hostile towards anyone that looks and prays different.
CincinnatiManabout 17 hours ago
I wonder if this has to do with the current economy and job market. Anecdotally I have found it very tough to find a new job (software engineering), though my previous employer continues to post job listings for green card applications as part of the required labor market test.
root_axisabout 12 hours ago
They are not connected - this is a pause on immigrant visas, not work visas.
nemonemoabout 10 hours ago
What do you think EB visas are: immigrant visas or work visas? Answer: they are both.
root_axisabout 10 hours ago
You're correct. I spoke a little too loosely, there are many different kinds of visas, but something like 95% of all work visas issued each year fall into the category of non-immigrant.

I'll concede that this statistic is cold comfort if you fall into that 5% category, but the point is that work visa almost always means non-immigrant.

typeofhumanabout 11 hours ago
This is the most missed point in all of the flame throwing in this thread.
stanleykmabout 13 hours ago
They certainly aren’t doing this out of any particular love for American workers.
miltonlostabout 17 hours ago
I'd say it's on the Trump administration being full of racists and white nationalists and wanting to deport immigrants.

Why do you wonder if it's economic instead of the Trump administration's announced policies of stopping immigration, including unconstitutionally removing birthright citizenship?

unselect5917about 16 hours ago
Conflating not wanting to compete with foreigners for jobs in your own country with racism is bad faith bullshit. Foreigners of the exact same race are equally unwanted competition.
epistasisabout 11 hours ago
Even taking you at your word, immigrants also create far more jobs. The economy is not some zero sum thing, with some fixed amount of jobs and fixed amount of work and fixed amount of wealth to be split.

Every economic analysis I have ever seen shows that there's economic surplus from immigrants entering a local economy; more jobs and more wealth is created, per person, than if those people had not come. In particular I'm thinking of some studies of local economy in Miami when there have been bursts of immigration.

goodluckchuckabout 16 hours ago
Birthright citizenship is so weird, because when I think of my son’s birthright, I imagine things he’s entitled to because he’s my son. He’ll inherit from my estate, he’ll enjoy my love and encouragement and support, etc. The location of the hospital where he was born doesn’t really have anything to do with it, but now I have an entirely new fear about foreign countries claiming my child if my wife happens to give birth early while on a vacation. Like, I want to go to Israel, but don’t they have compulsory military service? I wouldn’t want the baby to accidentally become an Israeli citizen and forced to serve for some foreign army. Same with China. I’d love to see the country, but they’ve had some weird and draconian laws like the one child policy. For all I know they take some children to be raised by the state. Whatever their laws are… I don’t think they should apply to my children.
inkysigmaabout 16 hours ago
This is rather weird framing since usually an additional citizenship (especially one in a country like the US) is considered a valuable thing to have for your child. Usually people claiming birthright citizenship are weird are doing it because they also see it as valuable. It’s also woven into the traditions of New World countries.

Regarding your concerns, I don’t see why it is unreasonable to simply renounce citizenship later or just simply double check your travel itinerary during the late stages of a pregnancy. This seems like at best an unfounded concern.

mcmcmcabout 16 hours ago
You can always relinquish citizenship. No one is forcing your child to be a dual citizen if they are born abroad.
bryanlarsenabout 15 hours ago
The failure mode is statelessness, and that's a very cruel fate to wish on anybody's baby.
moomoo11about 16 hours ago
go make your own anarchist nation then

you have a kid like billions of other people in the world, nothing special tbh besides it is "your" kid

you just want a subscription pass to a country, and i think people like that are useless freeloader people who want none of the stakes and all of the benefits

cool you can code and get hired by some company, or maybe you start a company. so what?

trgnabout 16 hours ago
I think many (if not most) countries in the developed world should reduce immigration, and usa in particular should abolish birthright citizenship.

The first because a lower supply of labor is going to create breathing space for an entire working population who will see tremendous job upheaval due to AI automation. A lower aggregate demand on houses, services will also be welcome to take the fuel out of inflation, and maybe we'll regain some of that experience of true affluence, where scarce things (e.g. access to cabin in the woods, a rowhome in a walkable city, ...) are in abundance. There is also the import of an idle, criminal element that has very clearly reduced quality of life and safety in many places.

Birthright citizen should be abolished because birth tourism and illegally crossing the border to have anchor babies are a vector for foreigners to participate politically and claim imho undeserved welfare benefits.

I think largely these are the stated reasons of the administration too.

galleywest200about 13 hours ago
Birthright citizenship is a constitutional right in the US same as freedom of speech, religion, the press, and the right to sue the government.

The change would require 2/3 of all states to approve a constitutional amendment. It won't ever pass. Most of us are only citizens because someone up the chain was born under this rule.

My family came here in the early 1700s and fought in the revolution. It would be a disgrace for me to do anything other than support immigrants.

anon84873628about 15 hours ago
The administration has never justified immigration policy on economic terms, only keeping out criminals.

If it were really part of a coherent anti-inflation, pro-housing strategy, then, well, a lot of other policies would be different... (Including signing the ROAD act, not starting trade wars, or driving up the price of oil)

UncleOxidantabout 12 hours ago
Our birthrate has been below replacement for several years now. We need immigrants to mitigate that.
ausbahabout 12 hours ago
straight up lying and doomer boomer mentality, sad and gross.

very consistent correlations between migrants being net positive economic providers, more law abiding then native citizens, and just straight up regurgitating racist myths

mass deportations won’t solve anything economic when it’s the same admin hamstringing prices and rates with tariffs, war, and defacto support of the oligopoly

i really wish basement dwellers like you though of something original now and then

wat10000about 12 hours ago
Just how many people are being born through birth tourism and end up claiming more in welfare than they pay in taxes?
izacusabout 16 hours ago
Are you... genuinely this naive and ignorant to what's happening in USA?
JeremyNTabout 14 hours ago
Attempts to find plausibly deniable rationales for this administration's anti-immigrant policies other than "gutter racism" are ridiculous.

Occam's razor. When somebody shows you who they are, believe them. Nativism is possibly the only stable and coherent political ideology this admin holds. Everything else is negotiable, but not this one.

moomoo11about 16 hours ago
didn't big tech co's layoff thousands of people here and then filed for thousands more h1b ?
jmward01about 4 hours ago
This is cruel. This is stupid. But more broadly important to this group, this will continue to push skilled workers out of the US and into friendlier countries. It will continue to erode our soft power since countries will have fewer economic ties with the US and fewer personal ties to the US. There are no redeeming aspects to this that I can see. This is a bad move in the short term and the long term.
thelastgallonabout 8 hours ago
Some of the comments are talking about H1-B which isn't impacted by this.

Vivek Wadhwa, one of the staunchest supporters of H1B (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12489558) is now recommending to end it: https://x.com/wadhwa/status/2090958079726927873

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eluusiveabout 11 hours ago
This is a response to the supreme court ruling on birthright citizenship. They're using the levers they do have, since that was removed. Anyone who agrees with the ruling should really read justice Thomas' dissent.
Terr_about 11 hours ago
What is this "lever" you claim already existed and then got "removed", precisely?
motbus3about 2 hours ago
Genuine question for any american fellows: Is this a real problem ? Is this a really a priority problem in your pov ? If if is why ?

In my country, we do have a policy of integrating people quite early on if they come from a fragile situation and for other people if they have jobs and can sustain themselves it is a bonus as they contribute with taxes and will have basically no benefits like retirement.

I am not making any points here, I am trying to understand why people think this is a priority and/or problem.

dcowabout 2 hours ago
Are you talking about general immigration or asylum? If general, what country do you live in? I’m going to plan an extended visit.
furyg3about 2 hours ago
I'm an American who's lived in Europe for the past 20ish years.

Comparatively, the US is extremely good at 'integrating' immigrants for whatever reason they come (asylum, work, family reunification, etc). There are a lot of factors, but I'd say the biggest one is that the "American" identity is one of immigration and is generally more flexible than say, the Dutch or Norwegian identity. I'd also say the general lack of a safety net compared to more socialist countries mean you pretty much have to hit the ground running and work, which usually means learning English quickly and all of the social components that come with work.

The idea that there is an urgent need to protect the US from a significant number of people abusing the system who come via legal immigration (as is the case in this context) is, to me, pretty laughable. I would assume that any abuse in the system or strategic priority shifts (which I may or may not agree with) could easily be picked up through a more normal policy/procedure/training structure within the state department.

There doesn't appear to be a specific, recent event where a significant number of people were discovered to have gotten through some state department filter or loophole that needs to be IMMEDIATELY closed in the context of some large risk to the US.

TrackerFFabout 1 hour ago
So here's the deal with the current admin:

The figureheads (Trump and others) are the least qualified populists imaginable, who have no business governing anything. They have zero ambition solving big problems, and have rather managed to get the US bogged down in a war with Iran, trade wars, and what have you. Trump is more concerned with the ballroom and the Kennedy center, than fixing anything of substance.

But working in the background, you have extremely goal oriented people trying to implement changes outlined in Project 2025.

So there are essentially two admins working in parallel.

On top of that, conservative media is working like a propaganda machine to filter what the MAGA base sees. Unpopular or head scratching news never make it to prime time, while the culture war nonsense is aired 24/7.

And frankly, Trump is not concerned what non-MAGA, or left leaning voters see. The current admin is concerned with convincing their base to keep voting for them, while doing everything in their power to make it harder or more chaotic for centrist and left leaning voters to vote.

Danoxabout 8 hours ago
Just more distraction from a clown administration the most incompetent in American history.
yaloginabout 16 hours ago
This one doesn’t mention tourist visas, so I am guessing they will be issued? I don’t get what benefit they see by inconveniencing and potentially harming folks that are already in the country legally to just live their lives. I get that this administration’s goal is to completely shut down all immigration and potentially even remove folks here legally too but there will be a cost to bear for the country because of that. It will be slow to come and so they will be able to blame it on the next administration
HippoBaroabout 16 hours ago
This is specifically for immigrant visas. USCIS distinguishes two broad categories of visas: immigrants and non-immigrants. Tourists are part of the latter group.
olivierlacanabout 11 hours ago
That's not accurate. H-1B is a non-immigrant visa. It's not intended for tourists.

From CBP's own website[1], emphasis is mine:

    An immigrant visa (IV) is issued to a foreign national wishing to live permanently in the United States.

    A nonimmigrant visa (NIV) is issued to a foreign national with permanent residence outside the United States but wishes to be in the United States on a temporary basis for tourism, medical treatment, *business,  temporary work, or study*, as examples. Note: There are more than 20 different categories of nonimmigrant visa classifications.
[1]: https://www.help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-1027?language=en_...
kaashifabout 4 hours ago
But this seems to be in agreement with the comment you're replying to.

Tourist visas are nonimmigrant visas. So are H1B visas.

Was the comment edited?

idiotsecantabout 1 hour ago
The US better be careful how many games like this they play. Even in the last few years I have had a lot of difficulty at my employer attracting people from canada as the US is not seen as a safe and stable place to work.
sandipankundu42about 4 hours ago
This is just plain and simple incompetence. It will hurt genuine and talented people so much.
tmalyabout 6 hours ago
I see this as a reaction of the administration to the judge’s injunction against their 75 country visa policy.
agnishomabout 11 hours ago
Are H1Bs still being processed? They are dual intent visas as far as I know
Razenganabout 16 hours ago
Not just immigration, seems like travel in general is becoming difficult too.

It's a real shame that just when we have the tech and infrastructure to allow people to travel anywhere in the world within a day, for a single person to be able to explore the entirety of this awesome planet for the first time in human history,

that the worst among us have to enforce artificial borders and deny everyone this basic freedom.

Travel should be codified as a human right.

If someone can support themselves and doesn't harm anybody, what ethical justification does anybody have for denying a person from living where they want?

green_wheelabout 10 hours ago
People aren't simply interchangeable units of economic output, and when they live together for long periods of time they develop unique and distinct cultures that are dear to them. Letting the entirety of the world into your country without stops is cultural suicide. If you put any a value in preserving culture you will find it ethical to put some limit on immigration. Assimilation is possible but there is a limit to the rate and amount of foreigners a place can absorb before changing significantly.
niek_pas39 minutes ago
'Cultures' have never been units of 'insiders' isolated from 'outsiders'. Cultural change is inevitable and there is no reason assume 'changing significantly' is inherently bad. That's what history _is_.
Razenganabout 9 hours ago
> Letting the entirety of the world into your country without stops is cultural suicide.

The natives of the Americas, Australia, and the many nations previously colonized by European countries, know that better than any descendants of the colonizers.

Did they get to have any say?

green_wheelabout 9 hours ago
Yes that is a great example. You certainly don't want what happened to them happening to you.
tayo42about 9 hours ago
There's no real Us culture to preserve.
green_wheelabout 8 hours ago
The US is too large to have one monolithic culture but it certainly contains many subcultures on the regional level. I won't dispute they're on the decline though.
unselect5917about 8 hours ago
>There's no real Us culture to preserve.

Fish Fails to Detect Water

The easiest way to see it is look at Japanese portrayals (outsider perspective). Cowboys, horses, guns, pride in our military and our free speech, fireworks and BBQs.

Just because you look down on the culture doesn't mean there isn't one.

trgnabout 14 hours ago
> to enforce artificial borders and deny everyone this basic freedom.

a very postnational view, humanist in a way, lipsius or erasmus would recognize it.

that sort of individuated cosmopolitanism only works for educated men and women with means, who have or have the capacity to self-actualize.

not for the masses. the nation is still a cradle to protect and nurture the commonwealth, and given that they took hundreds to sometimes thousands of years to form, i don't think borders are artificial in the least.

UncleOxidantabout 12 hours ago
> that sort of individuated cosmopolitanism only works for educated men and women with means, who have or have the capacity to self-actualize.

So because not everyone can afford to travel freely we shouldn't let anyone do that?

Synaesthesiaabout 12 hours ago
There's no reason why we should worship borders, or the state.
Razenganabout 10 hours ago
> and given that they took hundreds to sometimes thousands of years to form, i don't think borders are artificial in the least.

"Borders" as they are treated today began barely 200 years ago, and only started being enforced so strictly since WW1 and then even worse after WW2.

For the vast >95% of human history, if you could walk to somewhere and survive there, you could live there.

The real ironic shit is that most of the travel and immigration restrictions of today are instituted by the descendants of people that invaded and occupied the lands of other people :')

green_wheelabout 8 hours ago
> For the vast >95% of human history, if you could walk to somewhere and survive there, you could live there

For 95% of human history we were hunter gatherers living in extremely sparsely populated areas.

dcowabout 2 hours ago
This is political warfare. War is cruel and inhumane. If you want to stop the cruelty, stop the war.

There’s a lot of discussion about whether this is cruel or justified or legal—whatever. This sucks for people who get caught up in our immigration fight and ultimately it’s bad for all of us because it makes the US a less attractive place for immigrants.

However, we are here (1) because US citizens voted for more scrutiny of the immigration process to make sure people immigrating are successfully landing in the US and not taking advantage of the systems we have in place. And (2) because a vocal minority is unwilling to enforce any of our existing immigration laws and is actively sabotaging the administration’s attempts to do so. Nobody has clean hands.

In the US we do not approve visas for immigrants who we suspect will become dependent on our welfare system. This isn’t some new rule Trump made up to get rid of immigrants because he’s cruel, it’s existed for over a century. Fun fact: the current statutory language Rubio used in January to limit immigration from 75 countries comes from the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, a Democrat sponsored bill.

The legal challenge honestly feels like a technicality which is probably why the state department responded as they did. A judge said we can’t limit the ban by country based on public-charge language, arguing that the public-charge consideration must be evaluated independent of nationality or in other words, it can’t be used to institute a country specific ban. So the state department removed the country specific ban and said fine all immigration is paused until we can properly train people to evaluate public-charge since the current training is ineffective.

The state department tried the surgical path, judicial activism, whether technically correct or not, vacated the surgical path. So the state department escalated with a tactic that more literally adheres to the judges interpretation but also has more collateral damage.

This bickering is dumb and shouldn’t be happening in the first place.

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superdiskabout 4 hours ago
I've been waiting over a year trying to get my wife into the country. Looks like I'll be waiting even longer now. The US immigration system is just so utterly cruel and broken.
dyauspitrabout 17 hours ago
50% of all American unicorns were started by immigrants. This is sheer stupidity to prevent the best of what the world has to offer when they are knocking at your door.
Synaesthesiaabout 12 hours ago
People think immigrants come to just take. When they can contribute to the economy.
paxysabout 11 hours ago
The impact on academics and research has already been felt over the last decade. US used to be the default destination for academics and skilled workers from China ever since the cultural revolution. They engrained themselves in the country, studied/worked at top univerities, taught multiple generations of students, did key research, worked at top tech companies, and overall were major contributors to American technological superiority.

Then starting ~2016 Trump and his DoJ made it borderline impossible for Chinese nationals to get visas, specifically targeting research universities. Since then new Chinese skilled immigration has slowed down to a trickle, and there has been a massive "brain gain" of existing talent in China's favor.

The result - China now has a booming tech industry, Chinese universities have overlapped Amercian ones in research output, China is a very close 2nd in the AI race. And as skilled immigrants continue to be driven out of the US China in particular will enjoy the benefits.

BobbyJoabout 7 hours ago
You can't ignore the impact of China also becoming a better place to live as well. China is a different place no than it was 20 years ago, and the need to go overseas anywhere is probably felt less today than back then.
dyauspitrabout 6 hours ago
Salaries are still very low (like 10x lower) compared to the US.
gamblor956about 10 hours ago
The world's richest man is an illegal immigrant who started multiple companies.

(Musk started X.com while on a student visa and didn't get around to securing a work visa until many years later. This rule violation technically renders his U.S. citizenship void under Trump-era immigration rules.)

antonvsabout 16 hours ago
It’s unquestionably bad for the United States, but it will be good for the rest of the world. Time for US dominance to end, and Trump is doing a good job of that.
geodelabout 16 hours ago
And now they can be more evenly distributed all over the world. I'd call it a net win even if administration did not think it this way.
nekusarabout 11 hours ago
Well, for starters, good.

We all know this whole H1-B situation was to cripple wages and to get an indentured workforce. Glad its being "paused". Would love to it being modified to not being tied to a company, or gottennrid of for good.

Sorry about the people who were using it, but also not sorry.

Maybe we Americans can get some of those jobs the companies were scamming the govt with.

doom2about 9 hours ago
> we Americans

We can also take a more critical look at the definition of what being American is. The 20th century, especially pre-1920, was rife with illegal immigration. Why should the descendants of those who skipped the line, who didn't come in "the right way", be able to now call themselves American and reap the unearned benefits of citizenship? They've taken and continue to take jobs from Americans who need them.

TheDongabout 4 hours ago
While we're at it, I guess we should kick out all the descendants of Europeans, etc, and the only people who should be able to get jobs and count as true citizens are the direct descendants of the Native Americans.

What an offensive comment. You earn the benefits of citizenship by paying taxes, and ideally participating in your community (though _many_ americans also just disappear into their houses and watch tv / tiktok instead of being part of the community, both first generation citizens and people from a longer line of citizens).

First generation american citizens are every bit as much citizens as nth generation citizens. They all pay taxes equally and are subject to the same laws.

airstrikeabout 9 hours ago
I encourage you to pause and reflect on how confident and wrong you are at the same time.
typeofhumanabout 11 hours ago
H1-Bs aren't being paused. This is for immigrant visas.
nekusarabout 11 hours ago
Pity. Cause that's the system that needs overhauled or killed.
typeofhumanabout 11 hours ago
I tend to agree.
jjk166about 12 hours ago
"We're not anti-immigration, we're only anti-illegal immigration!"

* indefinitely pauses legal immigration *

darknaviabout 12 hours ago
Slanted take here, but this is exactly what they are doing with the federal government.

They like to complain that "big government inefficient and bad" while actively making it inefficient and bad. They are fulfilling their own prophecies.

Similar to immigration I'm sure. If all immigration is illegal then it's all bad!

stousetabout 11 hours ago
It’s not slanted, it’s accurate.
jacheeabout 11 hours ago
The right wing doesn’t want to run the government, they want to occupy it so it doesn’t run except to enrich themselves.
HumblyTossedabout 11 hours ago
Everything they say is a lie.
xdennisabout 11 hours ago
If you're saying that's hypocritical, it's not.

Being anti-illegal immigration and pro-legal immigration doesn't mean you want to flood the country with legal immigrants. That's the case in the UK, by the way, where the vast majority of immigrants are legal and it's the reason for the growing anti-immigrant attitude of the natives.

People who are anti-illegal immigration and pro-legal immigration also have requirements like:

- there should be a fixed number of legal immigrants

- they should be well vetted (this may be lacking in the US and UK)

- legal immigration should be points based

- quotas for legal immigrants should be increased contingent on the number of illegal immigrants which are expelled

- there should be checks to verify that visas are not abused (the way H1Bs are abused in the US with under qualified immigrants)

- asylum should be abolished because it's abused. It can be replaced by paying poorer countries to permanently host asylees.

jjk166about 11 hours ago
It most certainly is hypocritical. You can not be simultaneously pro-legal immigration and support banning legal immigration. If you support banning legal immigration, you are by definition anti-legal immigration.

> Being anti-illegal immigration and pro-legal immigration doesn't mean you want to flood the country with legal immigrants.

If only there were something between 0 and unrestricted immigration, some sort of program where people apply for permission and the government issues approvals for individuals to enter its borders after meeting legal criteria.

xdennisabout 11 hours ago
> You can not be simultaneously pro-legal immigration and support banning legal immigration.

Nobody is banning legal immigration. It's being restricted. The headline itself says "pauses". Do you think no legal immigrant will be let into the US until 2028?

> some sort of program where people apply for permission

Yes, and if that program is being abused (just ask people here on HN about H1Bs to see how they feel), then you pause it until you figure out how to solve it.

bix6about 10 hours ago
> The State Department has paused all immigrant visa applications while it briefs consular officials around the world on a new policy that aims to keep out people who are considered potential drains on public coffers.

From AP NEWS. Sooo Trump can get deported? Is anyone draining public coffers faster than him?

BatFastardabout 17 hours ago
What will be next in Trump's destruction of the American Economy?

So far he has driven away allies, put huge tariff on our most loyal allies. Driven away manufacturing by tariff policies. Driven away immigrants and academics. Pushed a last century oil based economy. Shown us how our exquisite weapon tech will fail (this might actually be good in the long run). Along with crippling our cybersecurity and state departments.

cosmicgadgetabout 8 hours ago
Replacing Lisa Cook or Jerome Powell and cutting rates to 0.
tialaramex32 minutes ago
It's funniest if the economic collapse begins with Republicans still in power everywhere to pretend that things are fine. Once Democrats are elected, even if they're not actually doing anything yet and so couldn't plausibly have any role in the problem the US media will insist it's their fault which is very boring to watch.
Jareabout 17 hours ago
Well at least you're healt... oh wait.
gnuplustoejamabout 17 hours ago
> closed for training

So like the DMV then?

kaveh_habout 8 hours ago
The political leaders (not just Trump) and their backers clearly are thinking that AI and robotics will replace most of the work force, so why keep importing new ones. The issue is American citizens will likely face similar but different developments. A future with almost no work in a country and political elite that detest social safety nets will lead to a societal breakdown.
anonym29about 16 hours ago
This is really frustrating. I'm (native-born US citizen) naviagting the visa process with my future wife. She has no intentions of working (enjoys being NEET) and there's zero risk of her becoming a public charge (our hh gross income is closer to 7 digits than it is to 5 digits), very frustrating that we're getting screwed by this under the justification of labor market competition and public charge risk.
jmyeetabout 7 hours ago
I want to give some context to this because I know a lot about this system. You have to see it as part of the larger moves thi sadministration has made to restrict legal immigration.

The most important thing to note is this for immigrant visas ie green cards. As yet, nonimmigrant visas such as visitor, student and employment visas are unaffected. That may change. It's also unclear if K1 (fiance) visas are affected because they're technically nonimmigrant but they'll probably be treated as immigrant visas.

This has the most effect on family-based green cards. The most common type is a marriage-based green card but there are also green cards for parents, children and even siblings of primarily US citizens but also lawful permanent residents ("LPRs").

When a US citizen or LPR marries a non-resident and they wish to live in the US, you broadly have three routes to make this happen:

1. If they're within the US, you can do an adjustment of status ("AoS"). This is where you file an I130 and an I485. Generally you do this concurrently. If you're an LPR and not a citzen then you might not because you may need to wait for a visa to become available. There can be other reasons depending on the foreign spouse's immigration history, whether they're in removal proceedings and what other immigration benefits they've applied for;

The I130 is filed by the sponsor (ie the citizen or LPR) and it basically shows that you both are free to marry and the marriage is legal. If neither of you have been married before, this is relatively straightforward. It can be difficult otherwise but an I130 is generally considered routine;

The I485 is filed by the immigrant to adjust status. It can be based on an approved I130 or filed concurrently (within the US only). This is where USCIS will determine if they believe the marriage is bona fide, meaning there's no fraud taking place. This includes the submission of marriage evidence (eg joint bank accounts, bills in both of your names, a lease or deed in both of your names, photos, proof of the relationship and so on). USCIS makes a holistic determination based on the totality of your case and prior immigration history. For various reasons, you may have a bar on adjusting and may need a waiver;

2. If the foreign spouse is outside the US, you will generally need to do what's called consular processing. You file the I130 as per normal and once it's approved you apply with the consulate. Depending on the country it may take over a year to get an appointment and the embassy and/or USCIS may end up sitting on the case. This whole process can take years. If granted, you are granted a visa to enter the US. Upon entry, you get a green card; or

3. The so-called fiance visa (K1). In this case you are unamrried and the foreign fiance is outside the US. It's similar to consular processing. If granted, you get a visa stamp and can enter the US. You need to marry within 90 days of entry and then you apply for adjustment of status within the US.

So, what has this administration done to block legal immigration? A ton, actually:

1. They've placed various bans on the issuance of visas to citizens of certain countries. There are 3 such bans in place now and they're called the 19, 39 and 75 country bans. I honestly forget which is which. What happens in consular processing and fiance visa cases is that you go through all the above steps including a consular interview and then... nothing. The consulate is forbidden from issuing you a visa by executive order.

Although it's never been estated, the administration tends to take a broad view of citizenship. For example, if you were born in Afghanistan and your family moved to Canada when you were 1 month old and you've never been there in your life, this administration treats you as an Afghan for the purposes of the bar.

2. The administration implemented a rule whereby you have to consular process in the country of your birth regardless of where you live. There's really no reason for this rule other than to make it harder for people from "shithole" countries to get visas because certain countries have incredibly long wait times for consulate interviews. And if your country of birth has no consulate, they'll assign you to another one and that may not be convenient or even possible (ie you may not be able to enter that country);

3. The administration released a policy memo that stated that adjustment within the US was an "extraordinary" rememdy and that most cases should consular process. They like consular processing because AoS can be challenged in federal court whereas the Supreme Court has ruled that the president has broad powers to limit immigration so consular decisions generally can be reviewed by any court. So the various bans will likely stop issuance of visas to citizens of those countries outside of the US until, at a minimum, Trump leaves office;

4. They're introducing a new rule that's typically called "public charge". This is a new standard whereby USCIS should reject visa applications from people who have been or they consider will be a "public charge", meaning rely on public benefits. You can guess the skew in what countries this does and doesn't apply to;

5. When you adjust within the US, you can optionally apply for an employment authorization document ("EAD") ie a work card. In earlier times, this would arrive within 2-3 months and allow a person to work legally while their I485 case is being processed. It seems like since January 21, 2025, USCIS has basically stopped issuing EADs to make life difficult for immigrants in most cases;

6. To adjust within the US, you need to be inspected at the border. People without this (eg they sneak across the border) are called entering without inspection ("EWI"). This administration has decided some previous programs under Biden specifically (eg CBP One and TPS) in most cases won't be treated as valid entries. This generally means you need a difficult to get waiver to adjust and if you leave to consular process, you're facing a 3-10 year bar and possibly a permanent bar depending on circumstances;

7. In certain circumstances to adjust within the US you have to maintain valid status the entire time or be in status at the time you apply. This administration is trying to take the view that TPS is not valid status for this purpose. This can be mean you're retroactively out of status and can be placed in rmeoval and/or face a bar if you leave and try and return;

8. Various humanitarian programs to parole in place ("PIP") have been ended, forcing people to leave the country to adjust and then face bans from certain countries, bars for unlawful status and/or inadmissibility;

9. There have been pilot programs, particularly in San Diego, to coordinate removals by ICE when people go an appointment at USCIS for an interview or check-in;

10. Judges in immigration court are not Article III judges like federal judges are. They can be fired by the executive for any rason. This president basically fires judges that approve too many cases;

11. Previously, people in removal proceedings depending on their circumstances could get out on bond. For a lot of people, this has been eliminated;

12. ICE will generally try and get someone out of the jurisdiction after picking them up to avoid getting blocked by a habeas petition in federal court. Often they're moved to jurisdictions with far friendlier judges (eg Louisiana). They can also be moved randomly to make it hard to family or even their attodrneys to find and talk to them;

13. There is a ton of evidennce that USCIS is sitting on cases to delay for really no good reason. For example, they'll approve the I130 and just not make a ruling on an I485. This can force people to pay even more money to go into federal court and get a writ of mandamus;

14. Naturatlization has a requirement for "good moral character". Up until thi sadministration, that's been treated as the lack of bad moral character, such as a conviction for certain aggravated offences. This administration takes the view that an applicant has to instead prove good moral character, which can be letters of support from citizens;

15. Denaturalization has historically been a very rare occurrence. It requires the government to go into federal court and make a case that you committed fraud to become a citizen. Historically this has been a few dozen casea a year at most. Now it's in the hundreds. That's still not a lot but people expect this to ramp up. They're also taking a broader view of grounds for denaturalization. For example, if you committed a disqualifying offence before you naturalized but weren't charged and convicted until after, they isometimes now go after that where they didn't previously;

16. They've implemented so-called third-country deportation. That is, you can be deported to some other country entirely if your home country won't take you or if it's deemed unsafe for you to return to that country. So, you can flee civil war in South Sudan and be deported to El Salvador now. Historically, we didn't do this;

17. This week they announced they were going to revoke the B1/B2 visas for asylum seekers issued in the last 10 years. For anyone who doesn't know, visitor visas typically allow you to enter the US for up to 6 months. It's up the officer at the port of entry and they just make it up, basically.

People who seek asylum are generally forgiven for however they get into the country as long as they entered with inspection. There is a huge backlog in immigration cases from the mid 2010s that are still pending.

Now those visas have long expired so what's the point? I have a theory. When you apply for a temporary visa, you're asked what it's for. So for a visit visa, it might be to go to the World Cup. At any point later on if they find you didn't do what you said you were going to do, they can view that as misrepresentation (ie immigration fraud). This is particularly the case for people who get a visit visa, come to the US and get married within a short window of time.

A finding a misrepresetation can make you permanently inadmissible and that makes you ineligible to adjust.

So what's the point of expiring old visas? I believe they're going to say certain asylum seekers committed immigration fraud to get into the country and they'll find them inadmissible and use that as an excuse to deport them, something we never previously did;

Or, that evocation will potentially break your chain of maintaining status retroactively, making you ineligible to adjust in other circumstances; and

18. The latest: immigrant visas are being paused in consular processing cases, ostensibly for "retraining" in public charge scenarios.

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markdownabout 12 hours ago
Is this in retaliation for a federal judge ruling three days ago that Trump's pause on Diversity Visa processing was unlawful?

Or is this in retaliation for a federal judge ruling 6 days ago that Trump's ban on immigration from 75 countries was unlawful?

jacheeabout 11 hours ago
Yes.
cloveabout 5 hours ago
An immigrant visa is a privilege a country grants and can withdraw. It's not like two parties signed a contract, and the contract was broken. Applicants bet on a slow, arbitrary system, and now the odds are moving.

I am one such "gambler" in this process, and it's happening to me too. I don't like the turn of events, but I also do not feel robbed.

Playing victim bestows no benefit.

kylehotchkissabout 17 hours ago
Same ruling class that goes on a bunch of tangents about birth rates stops immigrant visa processing for US citizens who married abroad.
GetThemOutabout 11 hours ago
They stopped it for those who married men as well
Dig1tabout 17 hours ago
This is classic goomba fallacy.

Right wing oligarchs want infinite immigration because they get a larger labor pool and lower wages. Right wing normies want less immigration because they don't want to compete with the entire world for a job and don't want to become a minority in their own country.

Spend some time on X and you can see the two parts of the right wing attack each other over this issue.

ajmurmannabout 16 hours ago
geodelabout 16 hours ago
Huh, this is rather useless argument. People in US already how companies, sport teams extract exorbitant tax breaks to move or stay put in particular state/city etc and nonetheless still end up moving because someone offered even better incentives. The jobs that are moving will not stay here for long even if all hurdles removed for immigration.
Dig1tabout 16 hours ago
Most right wingers are fine with that. As the recent GTA 6 leak shows, companies that embrace offshoring too eagerly learn the hard way that not all jobs can be sent to the other side of the planet.
kylecordesabout 16 hours ago
Ultimately, there is some value in each position, and in a corresponding set of positions on the left. Unlike many issues in US politics, in the long run this one is not well left-right aligned, and there is no single correct number for how much immigration is best. It's a bunch of trade-offs, which should be made democratically and end up somewhere around the number that the median person wants, such that roughly half of us are unhappy because too many immigrants come in and roughly half unhappy because too few. Arriving at that number and changing it slowly would be far better than wild swings.
majorchordabout 16 hours ago
> don't want to become a minority in their own country.

Yet in the next thread over, people are crucifying DHH for saying the same thing, except they are spinning it as "denying their right to exist"... somehow.

Dig1tabout 16 hours ago
It's an obvious thing that anyone can understand, any group of people on the planet would behave the same way. It is natural to oppose becoming a minority, minorities are treated poorly and marginalized, by dint of human nature. The data showing it's happening are undeniable, the only way to defeat the argument is to shut it down by labeling the people who make it as hateful.
tastyfaceabout 13 hours ago
What? Where is the contradiction? DHH is deplorably wrong for the same reason that these right-wingers are deplorably wrong. (Even more so in the US because none of them are "native" to the country in the first place. Their immigrant ancestors just got here a little bit faster.)
totallygeekyabout 17 hours ago
The US seems hellbent on destroying its own economy, immigrants have always played a key part in it. Looking forward to Trump yelling about how the radical left has somehow undermined the US economy in a few months.
bakiesabout 16 hours ago
Most damage will be realized after he's dead
FireBeyondabout 16 hours ago
And in the interim he's positioning his family and cronies to benefit from any rebuilding. Just as he literally sat in the White House and said, verbatim, "My children insider trade all the time".
reaperducerabout 17 hours ago
Everything is someone else's fault. The buck never stops with him.
nielsbotabout 17 hours ago
I’d guess Miller is the main driver of this given what we know about that loser (and freak).
timcobbabout 16 hours ago
Huge freak
dogsgoborkabout 16 hours ago
I often think about how far the Republican party has fallen from Truman with his "The Buck Stops Here" plaque on his desk to Trump's "I don't take any responsibility at all" response to poor Covid testing in 2020.
something98about 15 hours ago
Truman was a Democrat.
FireBeyondabout 16 hours ago
Meanwhile, just this week, he's taking credit for Biden's legislative efforts on cost reductions for pharmaceuticals that every single Republican voted against, and Trump campaigned against.
Terr_about 17 hours ago
Looking forward? He never stopped. It's been 10+ years of narcissistic scapegoating, even for times when he was President, even while Republicans controlled congress, and even over trade-deals, policies, and laws that he took-credit for and bragged about. (e.g. USMCA in 2020.)

> Without words said, a wave of understanding rippled through the crowd. Oceania was at war with Eastasia! The next moment there was a tremendous commotion. The banners and posters with which the square was decorated were all wrong! Quite half of them had the wrong faces on them. It was sabotage! The agents of Goldstein had been at work!

-- 1984

unselect5917about 16 hours ago
The parallels between Emmanuel Goldstein and Trump Derangement Syndrome are impossible to ignore for anyone who's actually read 1984.

To borrow from Baum (The Wizard of Oz): today there's not only a curtain with men behind it, but a man in front of the curtain that everyone is pointing to (a la Goldstein). And if he stops being useful they'll replace him. This has happened several times already while the men behind the curtain and long standing policies he people hate remain unchanged.

Terr_about 12 hours ago
Donald Trump: Billionaire in one of the top government roles of one the most powerful countries in the world; puts enormous banners of his own face over buildings; runs a personal distribution network to announce what he hates every day to his followers; regularly "jokes" about being a dictator; triggers perpetual wars with other countries; etc.

Emmanuel Goldstein: An exiled academic in hiding with a death-sentence over his head for criticizing the despotic government.

You: "People like myself who actually read 1984 know that Trump is basically Goldstein! Not any other character. The parallels are impossible to ignore."

If you really read the book, then that's tragic, because all you learned was how to embody doublethink.

geodelabout 17 hours ago
Well, others can bent in other direction and boost their economy by taking in all immigrants that were US bound.
forgetfreemanabout 17 hours ago
And they are. I read somewhere a few days ago that France is vacuuming up academics and advanced students that have been displaced by various recent policy changes that have proven to be hostile towards academia and research.
dnauticsabout 17 hours ago
As a former academic scientist, I suspect it's not gonna work out like they think it will--the process will self select for mostly lemons.
geodelabout 17 hours ago
Ah, vacuuming academics and advanced students is same as taking million immigrants for low skill jobs.
DataDiveabout 17 hours ago
I don't know about vacuuming good students ... you probably have no idea what kind of students get hired in the USA nowadays.

The recruiting at a typical research university has an woke dimension to it - and I am reporting my personal experience, not hearsay:

Out of five scores each student was graded on, three were basically pure wokism like: describe how you overcame a difficult prejudice in life, or talk about how your presence will contribute to an inclusive environment ... only one was probing actual skills ...

PS: I have nothing against immigration - I am an immigrant myself ... a former immigrant student at that ...

I am against the selection process that ignores talented, skilled people and replaces them with mediocre people with some (probably made-up) nice woke story.

cftabout 16 hours ago
It's a temporary, presumably short, pause to train the consular staff on the economic viability (or liability) of immigrant visa applicants. Why is it unreasonable?
0xbadcafebeeabout 12 hours ago
Because you don't need to pause applications to train staff? Schedule a training meeting for an hour on Wednesday. Reschedule the appointments you would have had then. No pause in application.

They aren't really pausing for training. The training is an excuse for the pause. The pause is to cause pain and difficulty and try to get people not to immigrate. Because they don't like immigrants.

sadengineer22about 16 hours ago
Yes, we should assume good faith, the Trump administration has a clear track record of being reasonable and sticking to their word.
mcmcmcabout 16 hours ago
Because if that were the case they should have just kept the existing staff that already had the requisite knowledge instead of letting DOGE fire 400 people from DHS who did this kind of thing. You have no backing for your presumption either. The Iran war was supposed to be short. The Trump admin is full of pathological liars. Stop giving them the benefit of the doubt.
FireBeyondabout 16 hours ago
What, were they untrained before? Is there a reason this training would take more than (at most) 16 hours?

It's a bullshit excuse that's barely more palatable than the truth, brought to you by the same people who paused immigration for almost all of Africa except for "Caucasian South Africans".

throwaway85825about 11 hours ago
Afrikaaners are a subgroup of what you refer to as Caucasians in South Africa.
FireBeyondabout 10 hours ago
So an even narrower group, driven mostly by one man's claim that they were being persecuted and warranted refugee status at a time when we pretty much refuse refugee status to applicants from the rest of the world...
OutOfHereabout 17 hours ago
As noted clearly in the article, this is a temporary pause while personnel are brought up to speed on the protocols. The real question is how just or unjust the refusals will be once it is unpaused. It's bad enough that the process is excruciatingly slow.

Users keep downvoting my comment even though it is the only literal interpretation supported by the evidence, without any evidence to the contrary. I would rethink only if it lasts over three months.

Note also that courts would easily overrule Trump if the pause became unreasonable.

eviksabout 16 hours ago
You're obviously wrong, it obviously doesn't make sense to close down instead is implementing the training for the new protocols in parallel. And the current disruption is just as real of a question as the future refusals. And obviously courts couldn't do it easily.

By the way, you also haven't provided any evidence for your opinion, why would you burden type replies with it?

OutOfHereabout 12 hours ago
The evidence is the title and the content of the article, so read it. I am not the one to jump to conclusions.
DataDiveabout 17 hours ago
Or as the saying goes: nothing is more permanent than a temporary solution.
orthecreedenceabout 13 hours ago
Also, lol @ "the courts will fix it!" Fat fucking chance. I'm looking into my crystal ball: I see a 6-3 supreme court ruling supporting the administration's executive order to liquidate congressional power and fold it into the executive branch (as the founding fathers intended...)
OutOfHereabout 11 hours ago
If you believe such nonsense, go bet on it on Polymarket. Put your money where your mouth is. Don't post such ridiculous assertions here.
FireBeyondabout 16 hours ago
Consular staff are trained on this as-is. It is hard to imagine a re-training on process that could take any more than two days.

And yet we have an entirely open-ended "We have nooooo idea how long this will take!"

Garbage. This is the same administration that paused all immigration from Africa except for "Caucasian South Africans" who were classified as refugees by default, regardless of their motivation on immigration.

This is just Stephen Miller doing exactly what he said he intended to do, and exactly what Project 2025 said the government should do (meanwhile, Trump, "What's that? Never heard of it").

orthecreedenceabout 13 hours ago
> "We have nooooo idea how long this will take!"

It will take about two weeks. Is that right, two weeks? We'll have it done in about two weeks I'm told by some, very intelligent people.

final_aeonabout 6 hours ago
This is good for Americans. I'm not sorry.