Back to News
Advertisement
Advertisement

⚡ Community Insights

Discussion Sentiment

54% Positive

Analyzed from 1281 words in the discussion.

Trending Topics

#end#russian#https#language#fact#soviet#rapira#programming#wikipedia#org

Discussion (30 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

nivertech33 minutes ago
This Soviet project developed two Russian-language PLs: Robic[1] and Rapira[2]. Robik was similar to Logo, but unlike Logo, which had only one actor - a turtle, Robik had several: a Train, an Ant, a Painter, and so on

Rapira was more like SETL + Python. It was a dynamic interpreted PL with a rich set of compound data types, such as sets, records (associative arrays), and so on. Compared to the contemporary BASIC, it was ADVANCED

Like Logo, Robik was used to teach programming to kindergarthen-age children, while Rapira was aimed at high school students

---

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robic / https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%BA

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapira / https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%80...

grishka25 minutes ago
By the way, there's one Cyrillic programming language still in wide use today. It's part of 1С (1S), an ERP system that's absolutely everywhere in Russia.

The language itself is quite similar to Visual Basic. It's awkward to write with a regular Russian keyboard layout, but I was told that there exist special layouts just for it.

flexagoon20 minutes ago
There's also Kumir, which is an educational programming language used in Russian schools
grishka18 minutes ago
Hm. That must be new, I was taught Turbo Pascal
flexagoon15 minutes ago
Somewhat new, or at least wasn't used in schools until fairly recently. It's a programming environment with tools like Turtle Graphics built in, specifically for teaching the basics of coding. There are even some tasks in ЕГЭ for it.

https://www.niisi.ru/kumir/

The website screenshot shows it on Windows XP though, don't know if it actually existed back then or if it's just typical Russian institutions still using Windows XP.

ahmedfromtunisabout 2 hours ago
I wish the Soviets had focused more on developing an independent computer industry and their own distinct flavors of programming languages.

Imagine the thrill of studying languages built to run on completely separate hardware architectures, featuring entirely novel paradigms and structures.

This would be the closest thing to experience reverse-engineering a computer from an alien spaceship.

przemelekabout 2 hours ago
But they simply weren't able to sustain it.

In the West, while the military industry initially pushed computer development, private companies quickly adapted those technologies for the consumer market. Over time, the Western consumer market became vastly larger than the military one.

In the USSR, this cross-pollination wasn't possible because anything that even touched the military was immediately classified as a state secret. This obsession with secrecy even affected civilian infrastructure like nuclear power plants. Plant operators weren't fully trained on how the systems worked under extreme conditions, and they were kept completely in the dark about inherent design flaws—because in the Soviet system, everything was by definition perfect and superior to the West.

Furthermore, because the consumer market was strictly controlled by the government and the party, the Soviet economy lacked any organic market signals regarding what people actually wanted or needed. Apparatchiks had to look elsewhere for data, so they resorted to copying Western solutions—sometimes just copying the basic concept (like a radio where users could choose their own stations), and sometimes cloning the entire machine.

While Soviet scientists had some highly innovative and interesting ideas in the beginning, central planners eventually decided it was faster and easier to copy a Western solution that was already 5, 10, or 15 years ahead in mass production.

vbezhenarabout 1 hour ago
I think it's a bit different.

USSR just wasn't rich enough to afford experimentation and innovation. Resources (including human brain power) were quite limited. So they had to copy proven solutions. Simple as that.

It's easy to judge them in the retrospective. But they had to make decisions, using the information the had at the moment, weighing risks as they saw them at that moment.

przemelek8 minutes ago
It wasn't a lack of raw brainpower or wealth; it was a structural and ideological failure of resource allocation.

The USSR and the Iron Curtain bloc had a massive population and world-class scientific talent. The problem was that the Soviet system viewed independent thought and individuality as a threat, actively sabotaging its own geniuses:

Persecution of Top Minds: Sergei Korolev, the literal architect of the Soviet space program, was sent to the Gulag, where he lost his teeth to scurvy and survived a broken jaw before being pulled out to work in a sharashka (a prison lab). Andrei Sakharov, the father of the Soviet hydrogen bomb, was relentlessly persecuted and exiled later in life for pointing out systemic flaws.

Ideology Over Reality: The state actively banned the teaching of modern genetics for decades because Trofim Lysenko’s fraudulent agricultural theories were deemed "more communist."

When you look at where the USSR did choose to spend its massive resources, it wasn't on pragmatic, cost-saving solutions. It was on hyper-expensive, top-down military prestige projects—many of which the West mathematically evaluated and discarded as impractical.

They built the RBMK reactors (like the one at Chernobyl) specifically because the dual-use design allowed them to generate civilian electricity while simultaneously harvesting plutonium for weapons, creating a fundamentally unstable system. They spent fortunes building the "Caspian Sea Monster" (a giant ground-effect vehicle) and the Tsar Bomba.

The tragedy of the Soviet computer industry wasn't a lack of money or smart people. It was that any "von Neumann" or "Seymour Cray" born in the USSR who asked the wrong questions or challenged a party bureaucrat's stupid idea was far more likely to end up in a labor camp than heading an independent tech company.

Those born in countries like Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria or Czechoslovakia were usually "asked" to leave country and they were working for the West ;-)

falcor84about 2 hours ago
That was my feeling when I first heard about Lisp Machines. It's unfortunate that I never got to see or use one in person.
ymir_eabout 4 hours ago
The playground on [demin.ws/rapira](https://demin.ws/rapira/) feels well made.

This is a pretty cool historical artifact.

Does anyone use "native language" programming languages in education or day to day?

konartabout 3 hours ago
1C is widely used in Russia as part of 1C:Enterprise (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1C:Enterprise think sap/abap)

UPD: 1C can be used in both Russian and English. And I'm pretty sure it can be used outside of 1C:Enterprise.

It also has BSL Language Server and IDEA\VSCode extensions.

voidUpdateabout 3 hours ago
I dont use any of them, but here's a list of non-english programming languages that some people probably use day-to-day

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_...

gus_massa2 days ago
It feels like Pascal in Cyrillic. Autotranslation, with a little manual correction, but I can't fix КНЦ (autotranlated to KNC):

  FUNC FACT (N);
     NAME: R;
     1 -> P;
     FOR I FROM 1 TO N ::
        R * I -> R
     ALL
  RES: R
  KNC;

  FOR N FROM 0 TO 6 ::
     ? "FACT(", N, ") = ", FACT(N)
  ALL;
vbezhenarabout 5 hours ago
Few fixes:

1. "ИМЕНА" is plural, so instead of "NAME:" it's a bit more appropriate to use "NAMES:". Probably should be "VARIABLES" or "VARS" in modern context.

2. You've got few typos mixing "R" and "P". Should be "R" everywhere.

3. Instead of "ALL" you should use "DONE".

4. Instead of "KNC" you should use "END".

So it would look like this:

    FUNC FACT (N);
      NAMES: R;
      1 -> R;
      FOR I FROM 1 TO N ::
        R * I -> R
      DONE
    RES: R
    END;

    FOR N FROM 0 TO 6 ::
      ? "FACT(", N, ") = ", FACT(N)
    DONE;
xxsabout 3 hours ago
>It feels like Pascal in Cyrillic

replace cyrillic w/ russian and it'd be ok.

КНЦ = end (конец in russian is end). However, in bulgarian in means 'thread' (as in sewing thread) and it has lots its meaning of end, aside from 'from needle to thread' expression where it means from the tip of the needle to the end of the thread.

Also 'ALL' (и все = it's over/that's all), which should be 'end' as in begin/end in pascal.

The main point still stands - it's Pascal.

bojanabout 2 hours ago
Being Serbian, I also find equalising Cyrillic with Russian mildly annoying. Or even worse, when people call it "Russian letters".

With that being said, I do think it's harder to make a clear programming language based on is a Slavic language, due to all the case and gender forms.

stodor89about 2 hours ago
> However, in bulgarian in means 'thread'

You can use "конец" for "end" in Bulgarian too, even though it's antiquated.

xxsabout 1 hour ago
... and it has lots its meaning of end

it's in the original post

dimavaabout 3 hours ago
Since I know russian well, here's a proper translation for y'all

    FUNC FACT (N);
       NAMES: P;           (* variable names *)
       1 -> P;
       FOR I FROM 1 TO N ::
          P * I -> P
       DONE                (* endif *)
    RET: P                 (* return value *)
    END;                   (* end of function *)
    
    FOR N FROM 0 TO 6 ::
       ? "FACT(", N, ") = ", FACT(Н)   (* print *)
    DONE;
yeputonsabout 5 hours ago
I would read «КНЦ» as «КОНЕЦ», literally “an end” or “the end” (Russian does not have anything resembling articles). Who needs vowels, anyway.

Also, «ВСЕ» feels like «ВСЁ» in this context, I’d translate that as “that’s all”.

varjagabout 3 hours ago
The acronyms are because it was originally russified by substituting character codes in Pascal binary. Thus VAR became ИМЯ, END became КНЦ and so on. Same reason JOB hilariously became ЗАД in the liberated OS/360.

Everyone's happy, head of development celebrates his 3rd degree Lenin's premium.

orbital-decayabout 2 hours ago
Is it really Pascal though? There's a lot of academic/educational languages with the similar syntax, and I think РАПИРА had additional data structures. (I've read a book on it and tinkered with it as a kid, but it was in the early 90's and I barely remember any of it)
arcadialeakabout 4 hours ago
There is also an independent open-source interpreter for 1C language (which is to this day reported to be extensively used in Russian enterprise) implemented in C#. I haven't tried it myself, but just though that it's also worth mentioning here as the project seems to be actively worked on: https://github.com/evilbeaver/onescript
mdtrooperabout 2 hours ago
it remembers to me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAKON a powerful flow chart (from the USSR) .
DeathArrowabout 1 hour ago
In an alternate universe where Soviets won the Cold War, we would be writing in Russian on новостихакеров.рф and arguing which vacuum tubes make the best computers.
dansloabout 1 hour ago
I could be wrong, but I believe the name is in reference to the Divine Rapier, an item in Dota 2, which is very popular among Russian speakers.
Pay08about 1 hour ago
Rapira appears to be a direct latinisation of the name of the language.
archargelodabout 1 hour ago