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#more#using#trust#https#always#don#may#math#serious#llms

Discussion (74 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

recursivedoubts•about 4 hours ago
Building visualizations with LLMs has been a major boost for my CS classes:

https://htmx.org/essays/universities-and-ai/#demos-visualiza...

Many visualizations that I have always wanted but just didn't have the time to build, I now have.

To give an example, I wanted a simplified 8-bit computer to complement the 16-bit teaching computer I use and designed this in a few days with the help of claude:

https://bdp.cs.montana.edu/

Aurornis•about 2 hours ago
Using LLMs to build out the nice-to-haves that I’ve always wanted but never had time for is one of their great use cases. Visualizations are a perfect use case for this because they don’t have to be perfectly architected, maintainable code. Getting to the correct visual output is good enough, and LLMs excel at iterating something until it looks right.
atrettel•about 1 hour ago
I agree that visualization does not need to be perfect. One issue is that "correct visual output" depends on your expertise level. A visualization that is good to teach undergrads may be frustratingly bad to experts and researchers. Standards like "looking right" depend on the audience's ability to spot nuances and how focused they are on the fine details. If you want a visualization to work for the range of people from beginners to experts, you do need to focus a bit more on what it means for something to "look right" for multiple audiences, since the errors in the fine details may hinder a visualization's usefulness for more advanced audiences.
nojvek•about 2 hours ago
This is v cool.

When I did my microcontroller class with lecturer hand drawing an 8-bit computer, the registers, memory, instructions on the white board, it was v cool to understand how things worked under the hood.

Wondered if someone could make more simulations for what was being taught. Teaching is about deciphering a thing into it's components and seeing how they interact. Vibe coded simulations are a great tool for that.

luciana1u•about 6 hours ago
Terry Tao using coding agents to build apps means we're one step away from a Fields Medalist asking an LLM why his Docker container won't start, just like the rest of us.
larme•about 4 hours ago
Before LLM there has already been Fields medalist[0] who creates professional software[1].

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Hairer

[1]: https://www.hairersoft.com/

skinfaxi•about 5 hours ago
This is a very humbling thought, thank you.
dist-epoch•about 4 hours ago
I'm waiting for the reverse, coding agents asking Terry Tao if the proof they plan working on is worthy of a Fields Medal
semiquaver•about 3 hours ago
There is infinite latent demand for software, most especially outside the traditionally software-focused spaces. If LLMs stopped improving today it would take us 10 years to catch up to the new software-writing abilities that have become available. This is a great illustration of that fact.
wffurr•about 6 hours ago
Nice balanced perspective there at the end:

"as such [LLM-coded interactive] supplements are not mission-critical to the core of the paper, I again feel that the downside risk of using guided interaction with LLM agents to generate such visualizations is acceptable."

It's a tool. Good for some things but not others and generally not to be trusted.

dahart•about 3 hours ago
> It’s a tool. Good for some things but not for others and generally not to be trusted.

I agree completely you always need to check the work of LLM agents, but it does strike me as a tiny bit funny to anthropomorphize AI by using ‘trust’ while warning against anthropomorphizing the AI by using unchecked output. ;) Generally speaking, “trust” in AI has been going up very quickly as the models & harnesses improve, and as people figure out effective workflows.

I trust my hammer with nails but not screws… does that mean the hammer should generally not be trusted? The problem with AI is we don’t know the difference between nails and screws. (This may be where my analogy breaks down. :P) But I feel like saying don’t trust it isn’t as helpful as saying something like you should expect to spend more time planning and iterating than before, and you should expect tot spend more time reviewing and checking output than before, and learn how to use skills and context and subagents, and learn to use AI on some non-production low-consequence projects first. Saying ‘generally not to be trusted’ implicitly suggests not using AI, and doesn’t leave the reader with how to use AI. The goal is to build trust by building good workflows and by understanding what works well and what doesn’t, right?

lukan•about 1 hour ago
"I trust my hammer with nails but not screws… does that mean the hammer should generally not be trusted?"

I trust a hammer to be able to hit a nail, without breaking. But if the hammer is old and the wood brittle, I don't trust it anymore.

Using it for anything else (screws) has nothing to do with trust, but using the wrong tool.

falcor84•about 2 hours ago
I don't understand what trust means in this context. Even if I were able to hire Donald Knuth to write all my code, I wouldn't "trust" it to be bug-free, let alone to be the right fit for my needs.
dhosek•about 2 hours ago
You could trust it to be probably correct but he wouldn’t have tried compiling it.
an0malous•about 4 hours ago
> and generally not to be trusted

There are many AI bulls who adamantly disagree and cite Tao’s statements about LLMs for mathematical proofs as an example of how advanced and autonomous these systems already are

irishcoffee•about 3 hours ago
Statistical gradient descent token vomiter. We can all say it together. Nothing about this is advanced or autonomous.
CuriouslyC•about 3 hours ago
This is like saying humans are a self contained electron transport system, nothing special or advanced about that, just a scaled up nematode.
abecedarius•about 2 hours ago
The same AIs are doing math research now, you know. At what point do you stop explaining it all away?
mxkopy•about 3 hours ago
I mean just from the above quote it’s clear he doesn’t trust them for “mission-critical” tasks. And I doubt LLms have evolved significantly from their stochastic parrot nature over the last few years
novaRom•about 1 hour ago
It's probably a matter of short time until it's possible to disassemble any sophisticated software, rewrite it entirely with better features and usability, generate all needed artifacts, port to any platform. The only moat left is probably remote massive data storage. So if you want to replicate YouTube or TikTok, it's not impossible, but requires a lot more hardware assets than say anything that runs entirely locally (like operating systems or most video games).
luciana1u•about 3 hours ago
Terry Tao using coding agents feels like watching a Michelin-starred chef discover microwave dinners and get genuinely excited about them.
tux3•about 2 hours ago
I liked this article about an old recipe book and what cooking could have looked like if we took microwave cooking seriously: https://malmesbury.substack.com/p/my-journey-to-the-microwav...
ViktorRay•about 2 hours ago
This makes me curious.

Are there any documented essays or reactions from the great chefs of back in the day reacting to the first microwave dinners?

thejazzman•about 3 hours ago
i'd imagine when microwaves first came out chefs were genuinely excited? it's pretty insanely magical to observe ... at first.
r_lee•about 3 hours ago
I wouldn't be surprised if that was actually more common than one might think
red75prime•about 2 hours ago
People are so confident that this just-a-tool will hit its limits any day now...
apignotti•about 3 hours ago
Running legacy educational Java applets, especially around math and physics, has been a longstanding popular use case of our CheerpJ Applet Runner extension, running Java bytecode in the browser via WebAssembly.

I am not sure how to feel about agents solving the problem via proper modernization. It's certainly positive that students will be able to interact with this content in a modern and more accessible way, but the educational use case for our product, although not commercially important, has always been a source of pride.

https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/cheerpj-applet-runn...

alansaber•about 5 hours ago
I always enjoy these "domain expert has fun using AI to do something in their domain" articles. But it's always a hobby project, never something serious.
rsfern•about 4 hours ago
Terry Tao has actually been one of the more prominent voices in the math community exploring AI for cutting edge mathematical discovery. This particular post is a bit softer but he has also written a lot about using AI assistance for serious core research

Nov 2025: https://terrytao.wordpress.com/tag/artificial-intelligence/

https://academy.openai.com/public/blogs/terence-tao-ai-is-re...

jebarker•about 4 hours ago
What makes this a hobby project? He’s a university professor so developing teaching material is part of his job.
dahart•about 3 hours ago
> always a hobby project, never something serious.

I don’t know what you’re reading, but always and never are strong words. I’ll predict by this time next year you’ll have seen some pretty serious AI uses, and can no longer say always/never. Widespread use of AI coding is brand new, and the models only just barely got good enough to do serious things. It’s way too early to be using words like always and never, but FWIW I’ve already seen some serious uses. There are good reasons personal blog posts rarely talk about ‘serious’ production code; it may be against organizational policy, it may involve code that isn’t’ public, it may reveal proprietary information, and more…

articulatepang•about 2 hours ago
What do you mean not serious? He’s developing visual aids to teach students and to accompany his mathematical research papers. Also, not in this post, he’s been actively using LLMs to do real math research, that is, to prove theorems and solve problems.

Teaching, research and publication are the core activities of his job as a math professor. How does it get more serious than this?

indymike•about 3 hours ago
That is how it starts, trust is built on hobby projects.
cma•about 4 hours ago
But he's also using AI for formally verified math and for ideas in solving math problems. The part about it being ok because it is a supplement just means ok that these aren't formally verified and may have bugs, and may also mean ok to not credit the AI for the paper as it is just a visual supplement and not the main work.
dboreham•about 4 hours ago
Serious things tend to be long and tedious and potentially full of proprietary information.
muragekibicho•about 5 hours ago
The article's awkward opening statement proves it wasn't written by AI.

I have been interested in machine-assisted ways to do and teach mathematics from as far back as 1999, when I started coding several applets in Java 1.0, both for my complex analysis and linear algebra courses, to visualize various mathematical objects I was interested in (such as honeycombs or Besicovitch sets).

kccqzy•about 4 hours ago
It’s very much Terrence Tao style. His style is having long sentences that could have been broken down into shorter sentences but he chose not to. It doesn’t really affect reading comprehension.
r_lee•about 3 hours ago
i would take this every single time over some Claude rewrite slop
vatsachak•about 5 hours ago
Using LLMs to generate dashboards is probably their most productive use case
botro•44 minutes ago
I wonder if LLMs modify their output when they realize they are interacting with a famous person.

By famous I mean someone whose biography is in the training data. All models know a lot more about Terrance Tao than they know about me, when he's working on his projects do the models know they don't need to explain "Besicovitch sets".

Since the system prompt likely includes something about not insulting the user, does the LLM modify it's responses if it realizes it's talking to famous politician, like "dont mention the time $politician was cancelled".

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koe123•about 5 hours ago
I am far from a mathematician but I am excited by the possibilities of using AI for generating more math. Math in my mind exists purely in the world of forms, and cannot be appropriated for profit, but is downstream to everything else. I am keen to see what this enables.
lioeters•about 3 hours ago
It may be a question of perspective, but in my mind mathematics is upstream to everything else, including physics, biology, etc. And it doesn't just exist in the human mind or the "world of forms", as in Platon's realm of ideas. It's more fundamental than that, closer to the foundation from which all existence emerges. Our reality is like a shadow of a shadow, a fleeting illusion, compared to the eternal reality that gives birth to all lesser realities.

As for profit, there's a reason why governments and AI companies are hiring philosophers and mathematicians. It's not to make the world a better place for everyone, or to encourage the progress of human knowledge; but to gain cutting-edge advantages over their competitors. Same reason why theoretical physicists were prized before/during the Second World War.

a-dub•about 2 hours ago
even though there's still a lot of work to push things over the finish line, i have enjoyed how much it has reduced the activation energy for starting and finishing "one of these days..." projects!
mikkolaakkonen•about 2 hours ago
This is amazing!
jdw64•about 4 hours ago
His website using mathematical knowledge is refreshing. There's a small UI bug, but personally, I wish more educational materials were this rich in audiovisual content.
jgalt212•about 6 hours ago
The more Terry talks about AI, the more I'm starting to feel like Terry may have some undisclosed conflicts of interest.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mathematics/comments/1tryyw7/terenc...

sega_sai•about 5 hours ago
When it comes to coding, non-programmers do not have to be in a defensive position worried that their job is under risk, instead they just see a great tool that saves them time, especially doing boring coding like dashboards, visualizations, interactive web-pages, or doing experiments that they otherwise would not have time for.
simonw•about 5 hours ago
jdright•about 5 hours ago
Mathematicians are a kind of programmers, the original ones.
lowsong•about 5 hours ago
"When it comes to a field I'm not an expert in, AI is a great tool."

Every time.

azan_•about 4 hours ago
Tao is not an expert in math research? That's a really high bar then.
alansaber•about 5 hours ago
Yes, because AI gets the "shape" of something right. If you don't know the field you don't notice the pockmarked surface.
lagrange77•about 5 hours ago
I think the opposite is true.
nmfisher•about 6 hours ago
Or he just finds it an incredible time-saving tool to help him do more maths.
perching_aix•about 5 hours ago
The well-known shadowy bias and conflict of interest of "I just enjoy experimenting with this new thing".
suwapat•about 4 hours ago
LLM will do very good job in pure mathematics since it don't need the senses to logically understand/conclude a given topic.